Poster: Mayla at 1/13/2006 1:16:30 PM PST
Subject: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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Hey Cay,
Thanks for fishing through our forums and answering a few of our questions. I know you can't answer everything and I don't blame you for that at all.
Mostly what concerns me is Rogue's role in the end game..
But anyways like I said in the topic I wanted to talk shop... sooo...
You said in your Hi post that you created your rogue to play for fun, while playing your druid because none of the other CM's were playing one. Why did you choose to play Rogue as your fun character? Is it the sneakyness, the stealthy ganking type view that drew you in? Or did you want to play a Rogue to do pure DPS? If you wanted to do Damage why not pick Mage?
I know that you said you've cleared MC with your guild and just recently started MC. What's your opinions on each fight in MC? Such as Shazzrah, where it's incredibly deadly for rogues to melee in that fight. To the point where 99% of the guilds out there make melee stay out of melee range.
Did you find Leveling enjoyable? I find it hard to level other characters after leveling my Rogue. I just recently leveled a priest to 60 and found it to be slower than a Rogue. Perhaps i was biased towards the rogue style. I don't know.
Have you ever jumped down into Un'goro crater on accident? :P
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Poster: Caydiem at 1/13/2006 2:46:07 PM PST
Subject: Re: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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I love the Rogue archetype. One of my longest-running characters in D&D is a Dwarf Rogue, actually, but they didn't have the appearance options I preferred for such in this game so I went human. In a general sense, what the Rogue brings to the table in games is an excellent scout. They can sneak ahead and bring back valuable information. They can also gain access to places normal adventurers might not. In World of Warcraft, this still holds true in the form of Stealth -- I can scout wonderfully with it, and can get to places more easily than others. I also bring lockpicking and, to a lesser extent, trap detection to ease a dungeon crawl, the same as in D&D.
I have a personal aversion to "glass cannon" characters. They're wonderful for the people who can play them, but I do like a little survivability with my game options. With the Rogue, this comes in the form of the escape tricks -- Sprint, Vanish, Evasion and the like -- that allow the character to keep on living despite the odds.
I enjoy MC in general, and since I'm an engineer, I don't mind making Thorium Shells for the Shazzrah fight. Though I do admit that one night, I forgot to make more bullets, and found myself without when Shazzrah was at about 90% or so. Instead of standing there or getting killed, I ran around bandaging people for the remainder of the fight. People were surprised when I showed up on the healing meter. :P
I enjoy levelling all characters. It's just about finding a pace and a place that works well for you.
I've jumped into Un'Goro Crater on purpose several times, and lived each time. ;)
With my raid guild, I use CTRaidAssist as it is required. To be fair, however, I only use it for the assist window. ;)[ post edited by Caydiem ]
I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph!
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Poster: Caydiem at 1/13/2006 3:04:16 PM PST
Subject: Re: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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Not all fights can be won. I accept that as an RPG player, and plan accordingly. Of course it'd be better to win every single fight no matter what, but sometimes things just don't go your way. An add comes in, for example. (Even then, I can probably handle it, but if it's a patrol of four mobs, say...) I'll try my best, but if it comes to that, it's nice to know I have options.
You want to talk not winning fights, try a Restoration Druid in PvP. ;)
I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph!
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Poster: Caydiem at 1/13/2006 3:05:16 PM PST
Subject: Re: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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Q u o t e:
She doesn't use damagemeters. Not surprising, because she'd realize that DPS warriors can match our DPS and more, along with more survivability. I hate to say it but Evasion and Sprint don't work as well as Plate armor with insane stats.
I don't use them -- I didn't say my guild doesn't. I've seen them and I'm up there with the rest of the Rogues. DPS warriors are down a bit but respectable, certainly.
I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph!
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Poster: Caydiem at 1/13/2006 4:33:21 PM PST
Subject: Re: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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Q u o t e:
get off my thread, thanks
It's not your thread.
I am here to talk shop. I will answer what I can when I can. I am not beholden to answer every single question posed to me. Some things I can't speak of. Some things, to be frank, are loaded questions attempting to get some sort of "Rogues suck" response out of me, which will never occur.
I am not currently here to begin an in-depth review of Rogues. There are some formidable DPS warriors out there, but in terms of beating out Rogues, those are the only the most extreme cases.
If you don't like what I'm posting, Baker, you have the option not to read it, but don't attempt to commandeer a thread because you feel your questions are most important and the rest of the content is not. Thank you.
I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph!
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Poster: Caydiem at 1/13/2006 5:03:26 PM PST
Subject: Re: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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Q u o t e:
What are you Smoking???
sprint and vanish can be countered at basically no cost in mana or cooldowns and evasion don't do you much good (any good) when your trying to escape a fight.
how can you possibly defend a statement like that?
its a falsehood and shows that your just towing the official line and ignoring the obvious.
You are referring to PvP.
I am referring to the entirety of encounters in game.
Therein lies the difference.
When first you go to complain about a general statement such as the one I gave, first, review what was said and ask yourself if this was meant to apply to your specific situation or to all situations. Very obviously, I thought, it was a general statement applying to the game as a whole.
Perhaps, before accusing someone else of ignoring the obvious, you should step back and not only read what you want to read. :)[ post edited by Caydiem ]
I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph!
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Poster: Caydiem at 1/13/2006 5:06:28 PM PST
Subject: Re: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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My question to you, Aftershock, is this -- are these Rogues the Warrior in question is outdamaging garbed in comparable gear? The word "Rogue" is always generalized in this claim without a qualification to the Rogue's gear or skill. The Warrior in question has top-of-the-line gear and knows how to spec and use their abilities for maximum DPS. In this case, yes, they might be able to beat out a Rogue with lesser gear or a Rogue who has not specced and/or refined their playstyle to eke out the most DPS out of their gear.
It's an extreme example, as I said. My Rogue outhealed a Paladin, once. :P
I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph!
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Poster: Caydiem at 1/13/2006 5:25:39 PM PST
Subject: Re: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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Your daggers drop off Ragnaros and Majordomo (Yes, I know that Perdition's is the highest DPS dagger outside of GM/HW daggers).
His sword drops off Nefarian.
The Rogue with Thunderfury has a slightly better case, but he's using an Onyxia weapon, too.
Since weapons are obviously the most defining factor, and you two don't, technically, have gear on the same level as this Warrior when it comes to DPS (close, but still lacking where it most counts), the answer to my question is "Not really." ;)
It may be a question of itemization, mind, rather than class DPS. There's little in BWL that can do the same for Rogues as what Ashkandi does for DPS Warriors.
In my guild, yes, we do have several DPS Warriors, but at this point the Rogues -- comparably geared at this juncture with the Warriors in strict numerical terms -- beat out the Warriors consistently.
I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph!
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Poster: Caydiem at 1/13/2006 5:34:43 PM PST
Subject: Re: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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Q u o t e:
After months of trying to bring this issue to the eyes of those with influence, it is now crystal clear that I just need to learn to play. I must not have the best gear! Why didn't I think of that!
I just need to get the rogue weapon that Nefarian drops. I'll get to work on that ASAP
Baker, sarcasm helps nothing.
If you are not going to contribute constructively and instead snipe, I'm going to have to take action for trolling.
I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph!
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Poster: Caydiem at 1/13/2006 5:49:33 PM PST
Subject: Re: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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You're reading a little too much into it, I think, Aftershock.
Design-wise, there are more "points" allocated to Ashkandi than there are Perdition's or CHT. (CHT in particular is far behind in that case.) As such, comparably, it is a better weapon than those two, and thus isn't on the same level. That's how the numbers crunch.
I'm saying that I'm sure there are cases where DPS Warriors outdamage Rogues, but I'm fairly certain these cases do not include equal gear. I'm saying that I don't really think it's a problem with the class.
I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph!
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=842886&p=#post843476 |
Poster: Caydiem at 1/13/2006 6:10:55 PM PST
Subject: Re: Hey Caydiem Lets talk shop :D |
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Q u o t e:
Try bumming some arrows off a hunter next time you run low, they always have spare. ;) And you can make them a few stacks of thorium arrows to pay them back.
Alas, my ranged weapon is the one place I've slacked; I don't have a good bow on me, and all of the hunters around me use bows rather than guns. ;)
As for the other issue...
You're starting to argue design elements with me again, which isn't going to work, as I need to speak with the developers about this. For the "why"s, you need to wait.
I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph!
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