Poster: Danqalicious at 12/21/2005 9:36:50 AM PST
Subject: Caydiem - A Treatise on Civil Discourse |
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Hi Caydiem -
First of all, thank you for your vigilance and attempts to work on our behalf to improve things for the paladin class, despite the clear unsatisfaction with the results for most of the paying customers that play a paladin. Please don't confuse the frustration players are conveying - we are mad at the developers, not you. :)
Now, that being said, a caveat - none of what I'm about to say to you should be taken personally. You seem to be taking alot of what is said in this forum personally, and I understand that; however, after reading your post its become clear to me that this communication problem needs to be travelled on a two-way street.
Often times, out of your frustration, you've come to this forum with a condescending and dismissive tone. Understand that as a result of this combined with your position as a representative of Blizzard, you have inadvertantly confirmed for many players what they have thought all along - employees at Blizzard are arrogant and stubbornly refuse to accept constructive feedback when its been offered in the past. Is this the message you are trying to convey to us? I doubt it.
The main problem, and I think you would agree, is a problem of perception. Its clear ot me that you are trying to work with us on this regard by trying to clear up some misconceptions, but to be perfectly frank we are getting mixed signals as a result of the communication you are providing.
You are asking for constructive feedback, and I welcome that. However, something that really burns me is that when we do offer constructive feedback you are saying that there are times that you cannot get the "whys" that we are asking for. Unacceptable! This can, and should be done. The developers do not live in a world where they are free from criticism, or are free from responsibilities concerning explanation of what they are doing when paying customers are asking for it. They have a responsibility to the customers, whether they like it (or believe it) or not, and for all intensive purposes they are shunning it. I understand that they are busy people, but that is simply not an excuse. This is where you come in. This information MUST be given to us one way or another. Up to this point, the hostility you are seeing is a direct result of this. Want to clear up the hostility? Telling us to take a chill pill is merely going to be dismissed. Lets clear up the hostility by opening up the channels of communication to where they should be. Like I said, this can and should be done.
Another issue that I think needs to be cleared up is that there is a perception that ideas that players are offering up are being dismissed outright because the developers believe that their ideas are better. Simply saying "that isn't true" isn't enough - we need actions, not words. This is a foolish and dangerous way to deal with paying customers. Some of your responses, frankly, have insulted our intelligence - that isn't your fault and I'm not blaming you, because your responses are born from the responses you are getting directly from the developers. I don't want to shoot the messenger; for all I know you are a sweetheart. Allow me to elaborate on what I mean explicitly concerning this.
Its being lost on the developers that they are dealing with several thousand people who have likely been playing roleplaying games for many, many years. We *KNOW* what the idea of a paladin class should be. To be honest, I think that maybe some people are a little bit too intense with the lore aspect, but hey, its a free country. :) Personally I started in my friends fathers basement playing D&D games with custom maps 15 years ago. Blizzard has, in most peoples estimation, shifted the class significantly away from what is common knowledge concerning what people expect from playing a paladin. If Blizzard wants to do this, its perfectly within their right. However, its the understatement of the year that your paying customers are looking at Blizzard with cocked eyes and a boatload of skepticism. The developers need to learn how to accept this, respond appropriately, then allow somebody with people skills to filter the information into language that people won't instantaneously be insulted by. Simply put - alot of paladins believe the developers are flat out wrong, and suggesting that "this is the developers game" is a completely unacceptable and immature response. Companies get flushed down the toilet on a daily basis handling customers that way, and Blizzard had not better believe that it can't happen to them. Theres alot of talent with some games that are going to steal customers directly from Blizzard in the near future, and although the flavor of the week is WoW, that can change in a flash. Ask Sony.
There is a wealth of very logical and well-constructed arguments concerning changes that people think are necessary to improve the class in the Paladin forum. Saying that players "dont see the big picture" is disingenuous and insulting. You are wrong about that, Caydiem, and theres a flood of evidence in this forum to show that.
We need to work together to broaden the lines of communication because that is a demand that must be met. The "whys" from developers are an absolute necessity - to suggest that its not practical is a lie and I could prove it in 6 hours if I jumped on a plane and came to Irvine right now. The next thing that needs to happen is for developers to eat a bit of humble pie. They are designing this game, but we are paying to play it. Despite what you or the developers think, we're not idiots - we've been roleplaying for a long, long time, and their expertise with the conceptual will never, never equal the combined expertise of the people who know what the paladin is and are playing an unsatisfactory version of a paladin. The customer ALWAYS wins, whether they take their business elsewhere or abandon the discussion completely. The players that think the developers are wrong will either abandon the class or play another game. This is unfortunate and can be avoided! I seriously doubt that this is the goal that the developers are trying to achieve, but this IS what is going to happen as a direct result of their action (or lack of action).
You say that we aren't being ignored? Prove it, and you will see the unfortunate hostility towards the messenger dissipate. Think about what I've said. The truth of the matter is that no matter what Blizzard does with the class, we are being short changed because the developers refuse to be open to a satisfactory level concerning what they are doing. Giving advice on anger management isn't going to fix a thing, although personally I think that as an aside some people should take that advice seriously. :)
Merry Christmas, and remember - if the egg nog aint spiked it ain't fun.
Regards,
Danqalicious
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=738069&p=#post738069 | | | Poster: Caydiem at 12/21/2005 7:53:41 PM PST
Subject: Re: Caydiem - A Treatise on Civil Discourse |
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I do appreciate your response.
I get the "whys" from developers when I can, but I want you to understand the inherent problem with posting such philosophy. It's rare that someone reads the reasoning behind a design decision, says, "Oh," to themselves, and goes on their way. It's far more frequent that the person puts in their two cents on why they feel the philosophy in question isn't quite right, from civil to extremely hostile. I'm not the developer, and I can't easily respond to such challenges with the confidence they could. Neither can the developers, as if they spent all their time debating with you, nothing else would get done.
That's why, even when I have posted philosophy, it's almost instantly dismissed -- I don't respond to the challenges, civil or otherwise, given, because I simply can't with the confidence I'd need. I've posted philosophy here before, but if you ask a lot of these posters, I haven't posted a single worthwhile thing here yet. It's a danger.
That doesn't mean I'm not trying to get more for you -- I am -- but at the same time, I cannot post and pursue the reasoning behind every single change in the game. It's entirely too time-consuming for, in the end, what amounts to little gain.
And keep in mind -- I'm saying this as a former message board goer that revelled in arguing design theory with both players and developers alike, boldly and without leniency at all.
I know the desire, from my own heart. On the other side of the debate, however, devoting such time to what doesn't help much in the long term is rather futile. What you really want to hear is that things are changing, not why things are the way they are.
Moving on...
Every single time I've made a generalization, I've qualified it. Some Paladins don't see the big picture well, here, and you know this. Some do. Some people are not civil. Some people, on the other hand, post wonderfully constructive threads. These statements I've made have never stated that all Paladins fall into these categories, and if they don't apply to you, they don't apply; please don't take offense.
Know that the developers are not going to change the Paladin to match any concept from a different system -- neither pen and paper nor video game. They have their own concept of what a Paladin is, following the Warcraft lore, and that's what it is in the game here. I know that people are coming in with their own preconceived notions of what a Paladin is. I know that it can be difficult to part with this perception. I will state, however, that the developers have no plans whatsoever to my knowledge to bring the Paladin class closer to other franchises' concepts. They will continue to develop and design the class based on Warcraft concepts and the overall design philosophy behind the game of World of Warcraft.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=738069&p=#post740549 |
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