Poster: Zookmottin at 2/22/2006 8:13:25 AM PST
Subject: Tseric walks into a bar and asks about invis. |
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Bar = Warlock Forum and I fid this...
Original quote by Tseric in the Warlock Forum.
Q u o t e:
Well, it's not that I don't understand your situation. I actually have not even summoned the Doomguard once, but hey, there is a first time for everything ;)
Really, what we are looking at here is reliability. More reliability would make the enslaved pets more dependable. Unfortunately, this has always been contrary to the devs notions for these pets. The permanent pets have a utility and distinct function that does well to balance the class. Additional permanent pets would only be worthwhile if they provided significant function to compare to the others and, as it stands, do warlocks really need another permanent pet?
The changes that have occurred for the warlock class in the past few patches has brought the class to a good place. For those that have been here since beta, consider the path of the warlock. I wouldn't go so far as to say the class has reached the promised land, but its the first thing to come to mind.
I know we all want to get more out of the enslaved pets, but to what end? What situations are going to be served that aren't already with the permanent pets?
Part of this can be attributed to the idea that we want these pets to be a natural progression to the pets that have come before them. This isn't really the case. The permanent pets are what the class has been balanced around and the inclusion of these pets with any more permanance or reliability will skew that.
To be totally honest, yes, the original concept of these pets has changed. Rather than remove the pets completely, they have been tinkered with to try to make them more appealing, yet remain as secondary, not primary pets. To develop these pets in a way that is distinct, yet balanced has been a long-standing challenge, as I am sure most of you are aware. It is something that is considered on a recurring basis. However, we don't want to make a change that we would then have to retract, as that would probably cause more frustration.
I wish I had better answers for you, but really the situation is a bit of a design pickle. Sort of like giving mages back invisibility. How do you do it without making it over-powered?
Q u o t e:
At the least, this issue is regularly addressed and I will continue to submit your feedback regarding the enslaved pets.
The above response was originally taken from the warlock forum about the doomgaurd and similar pets. The bolded part was something that stuck out to me and I wanted to respond to his question even if it was not directed to myself or the mage community. Now we all know one if the biggest upsets over mages is the spell invisibility. Some want it, some hate it, and some just don't care. Either way in just about every other game that has a "mage" they've had the same staples you already have: Fireball, Cone of Cold, Magic Missles, Teleporting, ect.
However since you asked this question I lured in to answer with alot of concerns you (Blizzard), the general public, and the mage community seem to have with the spell.
"How do you do it without making it over-powered?" - You could start by giving us back a spell that is like shadowmeld. Now before you maniacs start jumping my ass just listen to me for a second. You seem to think badly of bypassing content but not nuking people from a ranged position unseen.
A lot of mages would like to have their spell back. Some fear because of beta horrors it will be nerfed to be useless. We don't want that and I am sure you (Blizzard) do not want that, or at least I hope not. I'm going to go down a small list of things that seem to your (Blizzard) problem with the spell:
1. By-passing content. - While it would be a neat thing to do, it is probally not why most mages want it or even care for having it. So the first issue you run into is how to make this spell with out being able by pass content like a druid or a rogue. To by-pass you have to move.
Now that seems to be the only concern that I could find on record as to why you don't want us to have it. I am now going to go down the list of player concerns.
1. Always having "the jump" on players in combat - This simply is not the case. When I or anyone plays a mage in pvp you have one powerful tool. Range. You can choose when you want to fight and when not to fight. If you see someone in the distance you can wait and watch to see what they do before doing anything. Regardless though you always have the ability to position yourself to not be see and launch the same nukes. In addition since we are burst damage driven most people don't have time to react anyway. So being invisible would not add much more to the equation. We pretty much can strike with out being seen through keeping distance.
In addition to that we have two spells that are extremely viable in destroying a target with out them seeing us. Fireblast and Scorch. Both spells have no PROJECTILE trails! So in turn the target is never actually "seeing" where you are.
2. Giving warlocks a useful spell. - Warlocks already have a spell that allowed them to counter act this and most would like to see it be able to be useful.
Now I am going to list the common things I have seen many mages ask for of this spell:
1. Aggro Dump - Now I know you say we won't get one but if you don't want us bypassing content or jumping players what else is the spell good for? It does not have to be a complete dump it could be something that reduces threat by X% every 1 second while in this state.
2. Just chillin - While this is not something you (Blizzard) cares to build a game around, some player's have real life things from time to time to deal with. Going stealth, shadowmeld, or invisible is something they like. Prevents ganking on pvp servers, allows to check on an issue in real life, or just sit back for a second and take a break.
3. Be like a rouge with range - This is probally not the most mages agree on and I certainly don't want it for this reason.
Now if you look at the above points and directly linked it to a shadowmeld like ability it may give you a start at finding the answer. Because just brainstorming and opening up a test server for 3 weeks is not going to tell you how it will effect live servers. I honestly think you should give us for 3 months a shadowmeld like ability. QA it with live servers and see how it actually effects the game play. If it is overpowered, remove it. If it is hardly noticeable doing something different.
Lets look at what happens if you make it like shadowmeld and useable in combat. Let assume this is the spell:
This is just an example, don't take it to heart folks.
Invisibility
25% of base mana
1 Second Casting Time. Cooldown of 35 seconds.
The caster goes invisible. Lasts until cancelled or upon moving. You may attack and cast spells while in this state.
- This allows us to do the same thing Night Elf hunters do which you seem to think is ok.
- This gives warlocks a useful spell again
- This makes us have to use it wisely. If you just do it while in combat the player can see where you were standing and if they have an aoe effect you will not get much use out of this. So it follows lore with warlocks being the bane to casters and mages who know the spell how to counter it.
- Druids have a spell that can effect it as well.
- It could be an aggro dump.
- We won't pass content because we can't move.
- We can hide away when we want but not move to make it overpowered.
- It really does not make it like stealth at all because you can't move.
I just don't understand why you can't put SOMETHING in to test with and see the truth on how it is. You were clearly able to debunk the Fire Reisist issue in that not everyone actually pvps with Dark Iron armor on, or there best fire resistance gear. Why? BECAUSE IT WAS LIVE. You actually got to see what was happening and not base stuff of guessing.[ post edited by Zookmottin ]
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=720876&p=#post720876 | | | Poster: Tseric at 2/22/2006 8:36:31 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric walks into a bar and asks about in |
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Q u o t e:
Why? BECAUSE IT WAS LIVE. You actually got to see what was happening and not base stuff of guessing.
I had invisibility in beta along with every other mage. Bypassing content wasn't the worst of it. Killing players in a few seconds and having them have to look at their combat logs to see why they suddenly exploded was. We got to see what was happening and it was overpowered.
There is a regular cresting wave of complaints that hits the forums about shadowmeld from people getting critted by hunters. Anything that pushes the boundary of that is simply going to draw even more ire from other players.
To implement something of that magnitude and then tinker with it in a live environment is something that could be akin to toying with players emotions. Anything too much and the community at large screams nerf. Anything that doesn't meet the expectations of the mage community will be ridiculed and create a great deal of resentment. Sometimes, when designing games, decisions are forever and can't be retracted. What's done is done. If you implement something and then completely remove it, bad things happen and players can hate you for it.
Golden crispy! Bad guys are history!
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=720876&p=#post720952 |
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