Poster: Valiun at 11/16/2005 2:07:34 AM PST
Subject: 1 Year reportcard : Mages |
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I have decided to compile my thoughts on this class over the past year. It was about one year ago, i was huddled outside of a fry's in irvine waiting to get my hands on World of Warcraft.
Note: If you intend to flame just based on the length of this post, please hit back on your browser.
I got home from Fry's that night, i made a decision to be a mage. The class description sounded like this class was for me.
Q u o t e:
When seeking someone to introduce monsters to a world of pain, the Mage is a good choice. With their elemental and arcane attacks, it's a safe bet something they can do won't be resisted by your chosen enemy. Damage is the name of the Mage game, and they do it well.
Okay, so mages cause pain. Their spells constantly hit, so you dont need to see "resist" fly up (i use scrolling combat text). Finally, they are the main ranged damage class.
One year has past, and the game has changed in many ways. However, the only significant change to mages was the addition of Mage Armor, an armor that would benefit us in PvE.
I will return once again to our description, and how it has changed. Personally, i do not think resists in PvP are that bad, and this is coming from an elemental mage. So, no, you arent about to hear a resist gripe out of me, but rather a gripe about damage distribution.
In Molten Core, mages are outdamaged by both melee AND range, with ease. Damage is hardly the name of our game. Repetition is the name of our game. To start our night off, water duty. After vendoring my water, my raid can finally starts out. The damage meters are synched, and were off. Fast forward, the looting of Domo is done, and its time for mages to do there other duty of the raid, portals!!! I cannot help to check the damage meter. /dmshow, and what do i see? Rogue, hunter, hunter, rogue, rogue, hunter, warlock, rogue, hunter...interesting. Finally, in 10th, i see some blue, and there is mage representation. And this goes beyond the bounds of MC. It was a very similar situation in Zul Gurub. I was in the top 6, and that was using fire, the damage savy school.
Its interesting hunters outdamage mages. By looking at their class descriptuion, their "of their extreme range, decent damage, and trap capability" happens to be better than a mage. Since when does a class with "decent damage" outperform a class that "damage is the name of the... game?"
Melee damage has been scaled so they can easily outdamage all range. No, this isnt a gripe just for mages, but for warlocks, and priests too. The fact that in PvP, melee does too much damage. But, it wasnt always this way. There was a time when the damage discrepancy wasnt so large. It was a time long before Alterac Valley; In a time where there wasnt even an Honor system. It was a time where if you wanted PvP, you fly to South Shore and fight between SS and Taren Mill.
The fact is, the stats that help the melee classes weigh in much more than a casters stats. Agility helps dodging, and helps crit percentage. I believe its 40 agility per one crit percentage for rogues, and 16 agility for 1% crit for warriors. Strength helps attack power, and stamina gives health.
In contrast, a caster's stat distribution vary greatly from their melee counterparts. Intellect adds mana, and helps spell crit. For every 100 intellect you have, your spell crits increase one percent. Let me reiterate melees crit percentage; For every 16 agility points adds 1% to crit. 100:16, what a great ratio.
It should also be noted that casters only way to increase spell damage is through sacrifice of stats. At the same time, melee can get items with +agility, and +stamina, with the addition of chance to crit. They get to double dip here.
Coupled with class balance changes, itemization has drastically changed the landscape of this game.
I am the same mage I was a year ago, only that I now have Mage Armor. I am not complaining about the mage class, but in comparison to other classes, I actually am. On a PvP side, every matchup pits me as the underdog.
I understand we as a class are supposed to be fragile, but come on. Ive been one hitted many times. Crits over 3,000 should not happen in this game. Ever been windfurried by the Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros? I have, and it is game breaking. Ive seen epic'd out warriors fall to that.
Ive addressed the ranged damage discrepancy between hunters and mages, and will now enter into the cloth classes. Warlocks can outdamage mages. Ive seen shadowbolts crit for 3000, and this is coming from someone wearing all blues. The most ive seen a frostbolt hit for was 2000, and that was from an epic'd out Tao (a top horde guild on tichondrius) mage that has full epics. Warlocks are supposed to rely on debuffs, not direct damage.
The overall statement coming from the Dev team, in my opinion, is that mages are fine. I never frequented these forums until a fateful day at Blizzcon in the mage discussion. The devs said mages were the primary DPS in instances, and everyone was laughing at this comment in the audience. If you want to keep the damage from the other classes the same, you need to balance out our class.
The following are direct concerns coming from me, as directed to the blue that frequents the mage board, Tseric.
Q u o t e:
We are going to have things to reveal fairly soon that are going to bridge gaps that many mages are seeing. And by fairly soon, I mean I will be talking about specifics in the coming weeks, not months. However, just to be clear, itemization isn't one of them.
Ignoring itemization is ignoring the problem. Part of the downfall of not only the mage class, but caster class, is how strong melee has become. I understand mage survivability is one of the downfalls, but getting charged and hit twice resulting in me having to res. I dont know about other servers, but on mine, PvP is intense. Mages have had a significant nerf in PvP due to diminishing returns.
However, I am satisfied to hear that mage changes are in the works. Its been over a year, dating to beta, since mages had a significant change.
Q u o t e:
So, going back to your example of the warrior, we should make the comparison of Str=DPS, Weapon=DPS, and AGI=Crit%, while INT=Crit% and indirectly affects DPS by mana pool size, Spell rank=DPS and +Dmg Gear=DPS. Overall, I think the comparison you made is selective and not a fair representation. Conversely, it could be said that mages have methods of upgrades that are not equivalent to melee classes. It's a bit of an apples and oranges scenario.
This is where I think Blizzard doesnt see mages correctly. Lumping mana pool size with dps is wrong. We dont take rage into consideration for dps, do we? I know, this goes with apples and oranges, but it warrents some sort of recognition. In BG's, a mage will rarely die with no mana. Most of the time, you get a few spells off, and then are hit by a stealthed rogue, charged by a warrior, or hit with aimed shot. When melee is next to you, its already too late. You become just another HK.
Q u o t e:
With INT being the primary mage stat, this may be intended, but I can inquire about this specifically. To claim that Intellect is useless is an over simplification. I think you make this claim because INT does not directly influence damage, nor does it affect survivability directly. If you use consumables to increase INT and opt for +dmg gear, instead, that is an intended trade-off. Also, this is not considering that survivability for a mage is based in escape spells and CC, which depends on a mana pool.
You say it yourself, INT doesnt directly influence mana. And that is the problem. Do you hear mages complain about running out of mana? No, we complain about the damage!
Q u o t e:
At the essence, I think mages have the ability to define their role through accurate assessment of their qualities. In particular, I liked how you mentioned the control of water.
Water vendors and portal !@!#&s? Sorry, i couldnt help it!
Q u o t e:
Some mages may notice the omission of a frequent request of mages. "Make Conjure Water create more than 4 per cast". This has been considered by the devs on many occassions and has been repeatedly declined. At this time, the devs do not regard this as something overly obstructive to game play and it is up to mages to manage downtime effectively in regards to this spell.
Good. I would much rather the Devs focus on our class than how much water we conjure.
Q u o t e:
In regards to Polymorph having regenerative abilities while other CCs do not, this is primarily for PvE balance of the spell. Yes, it was put in a long time ago to balance the spell and then diminishing returns and such was added to make it similar to fear. However, in it's current state, the devs don't think this aspect of the spell is worth removing at this time.
I for one think this is another blow to the mage. I am very careful when using Poly in PvP now because of the regeneration factor. I rarely will poly someone who has taken damage, because essentially, its just letting them wait 30 seconds, and a free heal. If they use the pvp trinket, they can pop when they are done healing, and change the outcome of the battle. Sure, its work for the dev team, but thats what they are getting paid for.
If you have read this much, i commend you. I have trouble playing my mage now because it is just frustrating. Aside from water, portals, and polymorph, mages have become expendable in a raid. I have been unhappy in the direction mages are headed (or lack there of). The report card is in...
Grade: D
Edit: Changed agility crit from 40 to 16!!![ post edited by Valiun ]
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=514044&p=#post514044 | | | Poster: Tseric at 11/17/2005 5:02:57 PM PST
Subject: Re: 1 Year reportcard : Mages |
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Q u o t e:
Ignoring itemization is ignoring the problem.
Want to make sure you aren't misreading my comment. Itemization is a focus for improvement. I was just saying that it won't be in patch notes and no one is going to tell you exactly what items are added.
Q u o t e:
This is where I think Blizzard doesnt see mages correctly. Lumping mana pool size with dps is wrong.
This has got to stop. I'm not blaming you personally, as many people continue to say things like this. This is wrong. Please read the quote. indirectly does not mean I said "Mana=DPS". The whole comparison I was commenting on is, in my opinion, a bad one and any other such variations of the comparison are equally suspect. I did not say "Mana=DPS". I do not think "Mana=DPS". The next person who brings this up will be subject to as much public ridicule as I can bring to bear at that time.
As for the rest of the comments, they are yours to share with the community and I don't take any particular issue with them. Just wanted to clarify a couple points.
In other news, the sky is falling.
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