Poster: Nortsel at 11/4/2005 2:37:54 PM PST
Subject: Vaneras Pwns Tseric |
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Lol this list is amazing and points all out all of our concerns instead of telling us that we are wrong....
http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-mage-en&T=72658&P=1
=== Drink Ovaltine ===
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489546 |
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Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 3:21:22 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric |
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Q u o t e:
I agree it's a shame how many mages are being so thankful to Tseric who only changed his toon after the Devs talk at Blizzcon.
That Euro CM is awesome.
How exactly did I change my tune? Take a gander at the World of Warcraft weekly and show me where the contradictions are with my previous posts and what I posted yesterday. I don't really see it, but that could be my own perception.
The EU community team has to go about things in a different fashion because they are not in the same building (or country) as the development team. Therefore, you will find large compilations of class issues every once in a while. The difference here is, if I or you have a single question or topic, I can take a short walk and get information on it. In this context you get multiple bite-sized chunks of information. A comparison like the one you are attempting to forge here is not a very apt one. We approach our jobs differently, as we work in different environments.[ post edited by Tseric ]
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489629 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 3:40:51 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric |
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Q u o t e:
The person whom you quoted said "toon," not "tune." After the Jist accident, this is another one caught by me Tseric~~
Gltu 2
Tseric 0
2 Battles won; Have I won the War yet Tseric? /wink /wink
Incorrect, sir. The person I quoted misquoted the phrase. It is in fact "changing one's tune".
Gltu 1
Tseric 1
Rubber match to be announced!!!
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489667 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 4:06:53 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric |
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Q u o t e:
Tseric,
Unfortunately, the posters here are inclined to think that while the Euro CM is compiling an enormous list of mage issues brought up by the community as a whole, the only post we see from any American CM is the one where he defends his name in a flame post.
Not that I can't understand the logic behind wanting to do this, but when you choose to skip over threads that pertain to glaring problems with the class and focus on the "Tseric got pwned" thread, it only adds fuel to the fire.
Ignore the flames (as you should, because many people in here have no class and will readily insult one another), and simply reply to a topic that's relevant.
Just yesterday, there was an interesting thread about why a mages poly heals an affected target, while no other class's CC has that same drawback. A lot of pertinent info in there, yet no response from a blue. But, the following day, the post which flames American CM's get a response..?
In all truth, I'd much rather have an answer on my poly issue than as to why American CM's are > Euro CM's or vice versa.
This wasn't a post meant to flame, so I hope it is not taken as such.
Not taken as a flame at all. I hope you don't see this response as one either.
Q u o t e:
the only post we see from any American CM is the one where he defends his name in a flame post.
This is the only post you see, not the only post I made. Important distinction. I think this post is relavent in my relationship with the mages and I want to make sure some things are clear. So, while it does not address class concerns particularly, it helps us in the future to found a better basis of respect and understanding. This, in turn, helps me locate quality feedback better, which helps everyone out.
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489710 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 5:52:57 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric |
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Q u o t e:
My friend, I've been a business consultant for 18 years and you couldn't be more wrong. The first thing you should do is look at the problem in context. In this case, that means compiling all available information, and then re-presenting it to the parties involved to insure accuracy and then recrafting the message if necessary to other parties with your personal recommendations and touches.
Everything you have suggested here I already actualize on a regular basis, so I'm not exactly sure how I'm way off base here. I think your perception might be limited to what you see on the screen.
Q u o t e:
Your method is not only flawed and ineffective, but has proved combative. Rather than "try" and sound like you're an expert, what you should be doing as a good communicator is listening to your target audience (us) and filter out as many of the dead-heads as you can, and then do what I said. You will not only endear yourself to the community but you will become an effective mouthpiece.
First off, I never claimed to be an expert nor did I ever tailor comments to insinuate such. What I did do is attempt to provide a broader perspective. This is usually necessary when dealing with class issues, as many players do not look outside the bounds of their own class when it comes to balance. In regards to me being combative, perhaps you are right in some instances. I can respond aggresively to comments which I consider unhelpful or counter-productive.
Common perception of many players in the community was not fond of the mages attitude, but that did not factor in to me discussing issues with them. One of the first posts I made on the mage forums was greeted with posts like this:
Q u o t e:
Do you have a level 60 fire mage on a PvP server?
!&$% off.
And you think I'm being combative?...*shrug* So be it.
On almost a daily basis, I deal with the issue of player perception, the power of suggestion, and group-think. One person mutters something and suddenly hundreds of people regard it as fact. And simply put, I like to meet issues like that head on and not mince words. Maybe everything doesn't come out exactly right the first time, but more often than not, I am getting the core of my message out. That's what counts.
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489844 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 6:00:33 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric |
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Q u o t e:
It's mages like myself who constantly pound the table is how they actually recognize we have problems in the first place.
I know you would like to think the world is only real if you perceive it, but that is solipsistic thinking. We knew about the fire-resist discrepancy well before I began commenting on it here.
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489853 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 6:36:40 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric |
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Q u o t e:
Yes. Absolutely. It works for the Warlocks didn't it? They're starting to get changes they've been asking for by doing what mages are doing now aren't they?
So then where did Death Coil come from? As far as I know, that was never brought up in all of their "pounding"...
Again, your comments belie your understanding of the development cycle or the operations of this company on any level. Some people think, to this day, that warriors got buffs after they staged a protest. Makes me chuckle every time I hear the argument dredged up.
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489897 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/5/2005 1:36:16 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric |
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Q u o t e:
well thats a bit of an oversimplification, Etalen. Vaneras was listing some issues that until recently, Tseric and every other CM kept side-stepping or denying even existed. thats why people get furious - we're NOT stupid, we KNOW our class, we KNOW how to play and we're NOT working as intended.
when these guys over here keep pretending that its all in our heads, it becomes infuriating. Vaneras at least helped folks on the other side of the pond know that they were NOT being dismissed out of hand.
we need that kind of feedback here, too.
what we REALLY need is class reps.
- Tess -
Tess, I'm not trying to be rude, but many of your comments on this board are simply inflammatory and not much else. Show me one quote where I denied that mages have a particular issue. Please go back and read what I have posted more carefully, because I not only address concerns, but indicate plans from the devs to address them. Etalen did not oversimplify, you are the one oversimplifying things.
If you want a sticky list of mage concerns, fine. I'll write one up today and then you can be just like the EU forums. Will that make you happy? Doubtful, as the line will be redrawn for what you demand. I can see you growing more frustrated as you stare at the sticky list day after day.
Remember how mages just wanted attention? Now you got it, but that isn't good enough, is it?
I'll go back to fixing problems, you can keep fixing blame. Makes little difference to me.
A thousand words are worth a thousand words.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post491251 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/5/2005 1:50:37 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric |
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Q u o t e:
tseric, hi. you never say hi to me. Can i just get one hi? Maybe a pat on the back, something?
/wave
A thousand words are worth a thousand words.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post491260 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/5/2005 2:08:18 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric |
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Duly noted, Tess. However, no one, to my knowledge, has said that mages will have to wait up to a year to see fixes. I'll try to get a more concrete time-line, but that may prove to be difficult.
A thousand words are worth a thousand words.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post491275 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 3:21:22 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
I agree it's a shame how many mages are being so thankful to Tseric who only changed his toon after the Devs talk at Blizzcon.
That Euro CM is awesome.
How exactly did I change my tune? Take a gander at the World of Warcraft weekly and show me where the contradictions are with my previous posts and what I posted yesterday. I don't really see it, but that could be my own perception.
The EU community team has to go about things in a different fashion because they are not in the same building (or country) as the development team. Therefore, you will find large compilations of class issues every once in a while. The difference here is, if I or you have a single question or topic, I can take a short walk and get information on it. In this context you get multiple bite-sized chunks of information. A comparison like the one you are attempting to forge here is not a very apt one. We approach our jobs differently, as we work in different environments.[ post edited by Tseric ]
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489629 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 3:40:51 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
The person whom you quoted said "toon," not "tune." After the Jist accident, this is another one caught by me Tseric~~
Gltu 2
Tseric 0
2 Battles won; Have I won the War yet Tseric? /wink /wink
Incorrect, sir. The person I quoted misquoted the phrase. It is in fact "changing one's tune".
Gltu 1
Tseric 1
Rubber match to be announced!!!
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489667 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 4:06:53 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Tseric,
Unfortunately, the posters here are inclined to think that while the Euro CM is compiling an enormous list of mage issues brought up by the community as a whole, the only post we see from any American CM is the one where he defends his name in a flame post.
Not that I can't understand the logic behind wanting to do this, but when you choose to skip over threads that pertain to glaring problems with the class and focus on the "Tseric got pwned" thread, it only adds fuel to the fire.
Ignore the flames (as you should, because many people in here have no class and will readily insult one another), and simply reply to a topic that's relevant.
Just yesterday, there was an interesting thread about why a mages poly heals an affected target, while no other class's CC has that same drawback. A lot of pertinent info in there, yet no response from a blue. But, the following day, the post which flames American CM's get a response..?
In all truth, I'd much rather have an answer on my poly issue than as to why American CM's are > Euro CM's or vice versa.
This wasn't a post meant to flame, so I hope it is not taken as such.
Not taken as a flame at all. I hope you don't see this response as one either.
Q u o t e:
the only post we see from any American CM is the one where he defends his name in a flame post.
This is the only post you see, not the only post I made. Important distinction. I think this post is relavent in my relationship with the mages and I want to make sure some things are clear. So, while it does not address class concerns particularly, it helps us in the future to found a better basis of respect and understanding. This, in turn, helps me locate quality feedback better, which helps everyone out.
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489710 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 5:52:57 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
My friend, I've been a business consultant for 18 years and you couldn't be more wrong. The first thing you should do is look at the problem in context. In this case, that means compiling all available information, and then re-presenting it to the parties involved to insure accuracy and then recrafting the message if necessary to other parties with your personal recommendations and touches.
Everything you have suggested here I already actualize on a regular basis, so I'm not exactly sure how I'm way off base here. I think your perception might be limited to what you see on the screen.
Q u o t e:
Your method is not only flawed and ineffective, but has proved combative. Rather than "try" and sound like you're an expert, what you should be doing as a good communicator is listening to your target audience (us) and filter out as many of the dead-heads as you can, and then do what I said. You will not only endear yourself to the community but you will become an effective mouthpiece.
First off, I never claimed to be an expert nor did I ever tailor comments to insinuate such. What I did do is attempt to provide a broader perspective. This is usually necessary when dealing with class issues, as many players do not look outside the bounds of their own class when it comes to balance. In regards to me being combative, perhaps you are right in some instances. I can respond aggresively to comments which I consider unhelpful or counter-productive.
Common perception of many players in the community was not fond of the mages attitude, but that did not factor in to me discussing issues with them. One of the first posts I made on the mage forums was greeted with posts like this:
Q u o t e:
Do you have a level 60 fire mage on a PvP server?
!&$% off.
And you think I'm being combative?...*shrug* So be it.
On almost a daily basis, I deal with the issue of player perception, the power of suggestion, and group-think. One person mutters something and suddenly hundreds of people regard it as fact. And simply put, I like to meet issues like that head on and not mince words. Maybe everything doesn't come out exactly right the first time, but more often than not, I am getting the core of my message out. That's what counts.
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489844 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 6:00:33 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
It's mages like myself who constantly pound the table is how they actually recognize we have problems in the first place.
I know you would like to think the world is only real if you perceive it, but that is solipsistic thinking. We knew about the fire-resist discrepancy well before I began commenting on it here.
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489853 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/4/2005 6:36:40 PM PST
Subject: Re: Vaneras Pwns Tseric *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Yes. Absolutely. It works for the Warlocks didn't it? They're starting to get changes they've been asking for by doing what mages are doing now aren't they?
So then where did Death Coil come from? As far as I know, that was never brought up in all of their "pounding"...
Again, your comments belie your understanding of the development cycle or the operations of this company on any level. Some people think, to this day, that warriors got buffs after they staged a protest. Makes me chuckle every time I hear the argument dredged up.
Your Lucky Numbers: 4 8 15 16 23 42
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=489546&p=#post489897 |
