Poster: Demon at 8/12/2005 6:42:19 AM PDT
Subject: Biggest nerf ever: Mortal Shot. Read why. |
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I play PVP so much as a lvl 60 hunter. I know how USEFUL mortal shot is and I have invested heavily on AGI and Crit gears. Mortal shot is one of our best talents and it's something that gave us a chance to beat other superior classes. If you're seriously thinking about nurfing this, then I'm seriously going to cancel my account. I thought 1.7 patch was going to help us contend with other superior classes. Instead, we get a slight DPS increase and a huge nurf to spirit bond and mortal shot. NOBODY EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MORTAL SHOT. Leave it alone! I for one do not like the new talent trees at all. I would rather stick with old talent trees.
I'm so mad right now, I'm about to cancel account right now!
Good job you incompetent fools.[ post edited by Demon ]
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=583276&p=#post583276 |
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Poster: Kalgan at 8/12/2005 11:55:55 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Biggest nerf ever: Mortal Shot. Read why. |
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Hopefully, I can shed some light as to why this change was necessary.
First, some numbers...
Due to the number of talent improvements in this patch, our testing showed that a typical marksmanship Hunter's DPS was going to go up by over 11% as a result of the combined changes. Although some of you are likely to disagree, we felt that this was too much of an increase and would have led to Hunters being "overpowered". Bringing Mortal Shots down to a 30% bonus is an 8% decrease in the damage done on a crit since the 2.5 crit dmg multiplier is goes down to 2.3. According to our tests, this change, combined with the dps gains from other talent changes, have resulted in a net INCREASE in a marksmanship hunter's DPS by a little more than 4%.
In addition, due to the additional rank in the Barrage talent and the fact that some of the new hunter talents increase a hunter's base damage (which increases crit damage, since the 2.3 multiplier is being applied to a larger base number), we have found that a marksmanship hunter's burst dps is still approximately what it was before.
Second, some design philosophy...
In considering different potential builds, we felt as though Mortal Shots was too much of a "required" talent, and we'd prefer it if every hunter didn't feel as though they *had* to have Mortal Shots, since it drastically decreases the number of viable builds. Simply moving it farther down the tree (as some experts have suggested) would have been very dangerous, as many players would still feel "forced" to go even farther down the Marksmanship tree, which would even further reduce the number of percieved "viable" builds.
Also, while some players have suggested that the new Mortal Shots talent isn't worth the points, it's worth noting that the rogue's Lethality talent is a 30% bonus (and even more limited in application), yet is still used extensively by rogues.
In summary, I think it's important to come to terms with the fact that patch 7 brings more interesting talent choices, more pet customization, and an increase to the DPS of most hunters (unless you re-spec to a build that avoids as many DPS talents as you can, which I don't forsee many players doing).
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=583276&p=#post585836 |
Poster: Kalgan at 8/12/2005 12:06:23 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Biggest nerf ever: Mortal Shot. Read why. |
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Q u o t e:
How are you going to address the burst DPS lost by those hunters who don't want to go further than 20 points in the marksman tree, which will be required to get Barrage?
Barrage is an important factor in increasing burst dps for both PvP and PvE for a hunter.
If you're only going down the Marksmanship tree to 20 points, then presumably the talents you chose in another talent tree are providing some pvp utility advantage that you wouldn't otherwise have (ie: Wyvern Sting). I take it you feel entitled to all the advantages of each tree? :0
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=583276&p=#post585917 |
Poster: Kalgan at 8/12/2005 12:07:59 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Biggest nerf ever: Mortal Shot. Read why. |
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Q u o t e:
You know you have more than 31 talent points right?
You took the words right out of my mouth. =]
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=583276&p=#post585939 |
Poster: Kalgan at 8/12/2005 12:06:23 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Biggest nerf ever: Mortal Shot. Read why. *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
How are you going to address the burst DPS lost by those hunters who don't want to go further than 20 points in the marksman tree, which will be required to get Barrage?
Barrage is an important factor in increasing burst dps for both PvP and PvE for a hunter.
If you're only going down the Marksmanship tree to 20 points, then presumably the talents you chose in another talent tree are providing some pvp utility advantage that you wouldn't otherwise have (ie: Wyvern Sting). I take it you feel entitled to all the advantages of each tree? :0
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=583276&p=#post585917 |
Poster: Kalgan at 8/12/2005 11:55:55 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Biggest nerf ever: Mortal Shot. Read why. *edited post* |
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Hopefully, I can shed some light as to why this change was necessary.
First, some numbers...
Due to the number of talent improvements in this patch, our testing showed that a typical marksmanship Hunter's DPS was going to go up by over 11% as a result of the combined changes. Although some of you are likely to disagree, we felt that this was too much of an increase and would have led to Hunters being "overpowered". Bringing Mortal Shots down to a 30% bonus is an 8% decrease in the damage done on a crit since the 2.5 crit dmg multiplier is goes down to 2.3. According to our tests, this change, combined with the dps gains from other talent changes, have resulted in a net INCREASE in a marksmanship hunter's DPS by a little more than 4%.
In addition, due to the additional rank in the Barrage talent and the fact that some of the new hunter talents increase a hunter's base damage (which increases crit damage, since the 2.3 multiplier is being applied to a larger base number), we have found that a marksmanship hunter's burst dps is still approximately what it was before.
Second, some design philosophy...
In considering different potential builds, we felt as though Mortal Shots was too much of a "required" talent, and we'd prefer it if every hunter didn't feel as though they *had* to have Mortal Shots, since it drastically decreases the number of viable builds. Simply moving it farther down the tree (as some experts have suggested) would have been very dangerous, as many players would still feel "forced" to go even farther down the Marksmanship tree, which would even further reduce the number of percieved "viable" builds.
Also, while some players have suggested that the new Mortal Shots talent isn't worth the points, it's worth noting that the rogue's Lethality talent is a 30% bonus (and even more limited in application), yet is still used extensively by rogues.
In summary, I think it's important to come to terms with the fact that patch 7 brings more interesting talent choices, more pet customization, and an increase to the DPS of most hunters (unless you re-spec to a build that avoids as many DPS talents as you can, which I don't forsee many players doing).
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=583276&p=#post585836 |
Poster: Kalgan at 8/12/2005 12:06:23 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Biggest nerf ever: Mortal Shot. Read why. *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
How are you going to address the burst DPS lost by those hunters who don't want to go further than 20 points in the marksman tree, which will be required to get Barrage?
Barrage is an important factor in increasing burst dps for both PvP and PvE for a hunter.
If you're only going down the Marksmanship tree to 20 points, then presumably the talents you chose in another talent tree are providing some pvp utility advantage that you wouldn't otherwise have (ie: Wyvern Sting). I take it you feel entitled to all the advantages of each tree? :0
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=583276&p=#post585917 |
Poster: Kalgan at 8/12/2005 12:07:59 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Biggest nerf ever: Mortal Shot. Read why. *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
You know you have more than 31 talent points right?
You took the words right out of my mouth. =]
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=583276&p=#post585939 |
