Poster: Zyphyras at 7/14/2006 7:58:30 AM PDT
Subject: Sand? |
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I keep hearing stuff about sand and world pvp in 1.12. Could someone please link me to the topic that mentions turning in sand for buffs?
Thanks
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9055993 |
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Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 8:34:51 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? |
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It's not sand. It's Silithyst. It's the resource that is going to be collectible as a part of the Outdoor PvP event being placed in Silithus.
There is a lot of misunderstanding in regard to the Outdoor PvP and its intention.
First, it is 'World PvP' because it occurs in the world. There are no queues to join. There is no guarantee of fairness and there is the extra risk of mob interaction.
Second, it's not intended that people go to those zones JUST to PvP. World PvP should just happen. In this case by adding in goals to a zone that already has a lot of high level activity, we add an extra dimension of things to do within that zone. There is no obligation for anyone to take part in it. If you're there and you choose to take part, then take part. If you don't want to, then don't.
I understand that people wanted something more 'epic' in nature and would that have been implemented, the idea of spontaneous and voluntary participation in the PvP would have been thrown out the window as everyone and their next door neighbor's cousin would be getting massive raid groups together to storm X Castle vs a more naturally occuring PvP.
It was not put in a low level zone so that high level players didn't have a reason to harrass lower level players. By placing these activities in high level zones that have lots of activity we help ensure that people of the appropriate levels have a chance to take part. While the faction balance may not be fair, the levels should be failry evened out. (For those worried about what happens when people level 60-70 realize there will be outdoor PvP goals in the expansion as well.)
Third, there will be no risk of DKs. (For those worried about it.) Each side (at least in Silithus) has their own base camps they will be turning in their collections to. Feel free to gank each other at will.
Fourth, I read some comments where people felt it didn't coincide with the lore of the regions due to the shared threat by both sides, the Horde and the Alliance both. Please realize that while the Horde and Alliance share a threat, that does not mean they necessarily get along or work together. They still have a genuine distrust and animosity for each other. If they didn't the Horde would be at the Stormwind AH buying things to their heart's content and the Alliance would be in Orgrimmar consorting with Orc Auctioneers.
It's still important to note that there is testing still to be done on the system and these events. For those that are worried about fairness, there are battlegrounds that force the sides to be even. For those that are looking for gear rewards, the battlegrounds are for that as well.
For those that want to PvP out in the world on their own terms whether it's solo or with a small group, or with a whole raid party, that option is going to be there. The reward is the satisfaction of crushing your enemies under your bootheel. What you get out of it also is a short duration buff that is beneficial to you and everyone participating in that zone (should your side be victorious of course.) Please note the word "short" that I used. While players will be able to go into a raid like AQ20 with the buff, it will not be a very long lasting buff (at current 15 minutes) and certainly isn't going to get an entire raid through a dungeon to kill everything in it.
Now I'll end this very long post with my disclaimer. ;) Being that this is still due for testing, any current information that has been shared to the public can change based on testing. It is important that when this aspect of testing comes up that we get as many people as possible to participate and give us feedback on what they feel works and doesn't work. The team would like to make these events the best they can so that people feel there is reason to PvP in the world again without it becoming a lagfest like the old days of Tarren Mills and Southshore.
While people look back on those days fondly, there is also a bit of sour to go with it. Lag and crashing realms was not fun for everyone let alone how badly it interrupted normal leveling in a hotly contested zone. We would hope to avoid that in order to give a better experience to everyone.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9056750 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 8:46:39 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? |
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Q u o t e:
Neth can you talk about population imbalance and how you guys will try to fix it before this world pvp thing? you know on servers there are 2 to 1 alliance to horde ratio. world pvp = alliance free honor all day.
There are no plans for direct balancing. There is an understanding that there will be risk involved in participating in these events.
Who's to say how many people from each side will be participating anyway? One hour there could be 20 Horde in the zone compared to 5 Alliance. The next there could be 50 Alliance to 30 Horde. There are no guarantees that can be put in because it is not a Battleground.
At the risk of having people come out with the "You always say the answer to everything is in the expansion", I'd like to still draw your attention to expansion. There are two new races being introduced. Many people that were first drawn to a more attractive race may find themselves drawn to the Horde and the new Blood Elves. While these new races aren't intended as any sort of balancing tool, there is a certain element to be considered there. I wonder just how many people will roll the other side JUST to try the newest races.
With the new Paid Character transfers as well, we can't guarantee any factional balance on any server. A lot of that really comes down to the players and people willing to move to servers where there is need for them or rolling new characters.
I know many people don't particularly like that idea and would like Blizzard to be more proactive, but there comes a point where choice gets taken away from players and the sense of 'chance' and excitement many find in being on the 'underdog' side of things gets taken away.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9056973 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 8:57:21 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? |
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Q u o t e:
So tell me what's natural about having to fly out to the ass end of nowhere to fight over tactically insignificant objectives? These aren't places either faction even cares enough about to build a tiny hamlet, so who cares who controls them?
I realize you guys have to keep the vendors and givers of quests and flight masters and trainers available to players who don't care about squabbling over territory, but there are many better ways to do that than making all of the PvP objectives insignificant targets to either faction in the most inhospitable backwaters on the planet.
Who cares who rules the deserts of Silithus? Who cares whose flag flies in the pestilent wastelands of Menethil's lost kingdom? The whole point of the lobby for world PvP was not to be sent off to little sandboxes out of the way of the world to do the fighting, and that's why so many players are sniffing at this offering.
Well, because of that and because there's no loot in it for them.
That's the point Kaganfindel. People shouldn't just be going there to PvP. It is an additional activity for those that are already taking part in the activities of the zone. People that are there and are questing or getting faction already intended to be there for other purposes.
So let's say you're there and you come across a resource spot, since you're there anyway why not pick some up and shuttle it back to the basecamp? There is no 'must' or time period other than the looming idea that the otherside may just get the extra buff that is going to help them continue their quests or even help them pk your buffless self.
Any feeling of 'grind' that comes from this will be something brought on by the player themself. It's a choice issue. Are you the type that wants to beat the other side to the extra buff and claim a moral victory? Or, are you the type that just doesn't care and maybe picks up some Silithyst and turns it in every now and then? It's a factional activity too so anyone can take part as much or as little as they want.
(I forgot who asked this but no you can't destroy the other player's hub.)
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9057192 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 9:15:28 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? |
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Q u o t e:
Neth, can you please communicate to the devs to change the current World PvP rules? Please please please remove Dishonorable Kills and make Civilians unattackable, just like the children NPC that runs around in the game.
This by itself will bring back the world pvp that we miss so much. Seiging towns and having epic battles near fortifications >>>> sand collecting.
Actually, the community team was able to ask about DKs yesterday at our meeting with the devs and we are being careful about how we answer this.
The current word is that DK changes were going to be evaluated in testing prior to release of the expansion pack. That means that the team is interested in seeing different scenarios of DK changes and how they will affect play. Dependent on their results there may well be changes to the DK end of the system. However, I want to stress 'may' because we don't want to promise anything so early on. It is definetly something the developers are discussing and looking into.
*Edit- I also wanted to note that no one is forcing people to go to a particular zone to PvP. PvP can and will happen anywhere people want it to. I know from my own time on a PvP server that PvP happens in Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands already. This is just an extra bonus to those participating in those zones.
Yes, I think mobs make things more frustrating and fun and exciting all at once. I've been involved with 3 mobs on me and 2 on the other person and sweated over whether I was going to kill the other person before the mobs got me before. ;)[ post edited by Nethaera ]
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9057587 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 9:25:43 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? |
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Q u o t e:
You didn't just say that having Castles to storm would be bad for PvP, you couldn't have said that...
I know your job these days pretty much sucks, but at least give us some hope for the PvP game other than ...sand...
Sand IS the mind killer
No Celedon. That isn't what I said. I said making it a part of an outdoor activity wasn't seen as something beneficial to an already heavy activity zone/s.
Please remember that there will also be new Battlegrounds and other things that are being planned and this is just one aspect of a lot of new content that is being developed.
Again, I realize people want to seige cities without the fear of DKs. The Developers realize this too but there are other things to consider when looking at the situation and those things ARE being considered and looked at.
I also realize that my answers aren't always going to make people happy or make people jump for joy. Some people are going to be interested in what I have to say, some won't like it and some are already predisposed to hate everything no matter what I said. ;) I'm still going to urge people to please test before you pass judgement. We still have yet to see how these things really work under 'normal' circumstances.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9057861 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 9:40:07 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? |
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Q u o t e:
Summary: DKs will be removed but only if you buy the expansion. Letting players have fun and pvp now would be a terrible business decision when they can entice us to buy the expansion if we want to pvp.
Any changes implemented to the system will affect people without the expansion and with the expansion. The only difference between the two is that with the expansion comes additional content including more levels, new races and new areas to eplore among other things.
People keep misunderstanding that when we say 'with the expansion' it means that overall changes to the core systems will affect everyone not just those that buy the expansion.[ post edited by Nethaera ]
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9058203 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 9:40:07 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Summary: DKs will be removed but only if you buy the expansion. Letting players have fun and pvp now would be a terrible business decision when they can entice us to buy the expansion if we want to pvp.
Any changes implemented to the system will affect people without the expansion and with the expansion. The only difference between the two is that with the expansion comes additional content including more levels, new races and new areas to eplore among other things.
People keep misunderstanding that when we say 'with the expansion' it means that overall changes to the core systems will affect everyone not just those that buy the expansion.[ post edited by Nethaera ]
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9058203 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 8:46:39 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Neth can you talk about population imbalance and how you guys will try to fix it before this world pvp thing? you know on servers there are 2 to 1 alliance to horde ratio. world pvp = alliance free honor all day.
There are no plans for direct balancing. There is an understanding that there will be risk involved in participating in these events.
Who's to say how many people from each side will be participating anyway? One hour there could be 20 Horde in the zone compared to 5 Alliance. The next there could be 50 Alliance to 30 Horde. There are no guarantees that can be put in because it is not a Battleground.
At the risk of having people come out with the "You always say the answer to everything is in the expansion", I'd like to still draw your attention to expansion. There are two new races being introduced. Many people that were first drawn to a more attractive race may find themselves drawn to the Horde and the new Blood Elves. While these new races aren't intended as any sort of balancing tool, there is a certain element to be considered there. I wonder just how many people will roll the other side JUST to try the newest races.
With the new Paid Character transfers as well, we can't guarantee any factional balance on any server. A lot of that really comes down to the players and people willing to move to servers where there is need for them or rolling new characters.
I know many people don't particularly like that idea and would like Blizzard to be more proactive, but there comes a point where choice gets taken away from players and the sense of 'chance' and excitement many find in being on the 'underdog' side of things gets taken away.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9056973 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 8:57:21 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
So tell me what's natural about having to fly out to the ass end of nowhere to fight over tactically insignificant objectives? These aren't places either faction even cares enough about to build a tiny hamlet, so who cares who controls them?
I realize you guys have to keep the vendors and givers of quests and flight masters and trainers available to players who don't care about squabbling over territory, but there are many better ways to do that than making all of the PvP objectives insignificant targets to either faction in the most inhospitable backwaters on the planet.
Who cares who rules the deserts of Silithus? Who cares whose flag flies in the pestilent wastelands of Menethil's lost kingdom? The whole point of the lobby for world PvP was not to be sent off to little sandboxes out of the way of the world to do the fighting, and that's why so many players are sniffing at this offering.
Well, because of that and because there's no loot in it for them.
That's the point Kaganfindel. People shouldn't just be going there to PvP. It is an additional activity for those that are already taking part in the activities of the zone. People that are there and are questing or getting faction already intended to be there for other purposes.
So let's say you're there and you come across a resource spot, since you're there anyway why not pick some up and shuttle it back to the basecamp? There is no 'must' or time period other than the looming idea that the otherside may just get the extra buff that is going to help them continue their quests or even help them pk your buffless self.
Any feeling of 'grind' that comes from this will be something brought on by the player themself. It's a choice issue. Are you the type that wants to beat the other side to the extra buff and claim a moral victory? Or, are you the type that just doesn't care and maybe picks up some Silithyst and turns it in every now and then? It's a factional activity too so anyone can take part as much or as little as they want.
(I forgot who asked this but no you can't destroy the other player's hub.)
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9057192 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 9:15:28 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Neth, can you please communicate to the devs to change the current World PvP rules? Please please please remove Dishonorable Kills and make Civilians unattackable, just like the children NPC that runs around in the game.
This by itself will bring back the world pvp that we miss so much. Seiging towns and having epic battles near fortifications >>>> sand collecting.
Actually, the community team was able to ask about DKs yesterday at our meeting with the devs and we are being careful about how we answer this.
The current word is that DK changes were going to be evaluated in testing prior to release of the expansion pack. That means that the team is interested in seeing different scenarios of DK changes and how they will affect play. Dependent on their results there may well be changes to the DK end of the system. However, I want to stress 'may' because we don't want to promise anything so early on. It is definetly something the developers are discussing and looking into.
*Edit- I also wanted to note that no one is forcing people to go to a particular zone to PvP. PvP can and will happen anywhere people want it to. I know from my own time on a PvP server that PvP happens in Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands already. This is just an extra bonus to those participating in those zones.
Yes, I think mobs make things more frustrating and fun and exciting all at once. I've been involved with 3 mobs on me and 2 on the other person and sweated over whether I was going to kill the other person before the mobs got me before. ;)[ post edited by Nethaera ]
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9057587 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 9:25:43 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
You didn't just say that having Castles to storm would be bad for PvP, you couldn't have said that...
I know your job these days pretty much sucks, but at least give us some hope for the PvP game other than ...sand...
Sand IS the mind killer
No Celedon. That isn't what I said. I said making it a part of an outdoor activity wasn't seen as something beneficial to an already heavy activity zone/s.
Please remember that there will also be new Battlegrounds and other things that are being planned and this is just one aspect of a lot of new content that is being developed.
Again, I realize people want to seige cities without the fear of DKs. The Developers realize this too but there are other things to consider when looking at the situation and those things ARE being considered and looked at.
I also realize that my answers aren't always going to make people happy or make people jump for joy. Some people are going to be interested in what I have to say, some won't like it and some are already predisposed to hate everything no matter what I said. ;) I'm still going to urge people to please test before you pass judgement. We still have yet to see how these things really work under 'normal' circumstances.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9057861 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 9:40:07 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Summary: DKs will be removed but only if you buy the expansion. Letting players have fun and pvp now would be a terrible business decision when they can entice us to buy the expansion if we want to pvp.
Any changes implemented to the system will affect people without the expansion and with the expansion. The only difference between the two is that with the expansion comes additional content including more levels, new races and new areas to eplore among other things.
People keep misunderstanding that when we say 'with the expansion' it means that overall changes to the core systems will affect everyone not just those that buy the expansion.[ post edited by Nethaera ]
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9058203 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 8:57:21 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
So tell me what's natural about having to fly out to the ass end of nowhere to fight over tactically insignificant objectives? These aren't places either faction even cares enough about to build a tiny hamlet, so who cares who controls them?
I realize you guys have to keep the vendors and givers of quests and flight masters and trainers available to players who don't care about squabbling over territory, but there are many better ways to do that than making all of the PvP objectives insignificant targets to either faction in the most inhospitable backwaters on the planet.
Who cares who rules the deserts of Silithus? Who cares whose flag flies in the pestilent wastelands of Menethil's lost kingdom? The whole point of the lobby for world PvP was not to be sent off to little sandboxes out of the way of the world to do the fighting, and that's why so many players are sniffing at this offering.
Well, because of that and because there's no loot in it for them.
That's the point Kaganfindel. People shouldn't just be going there to PvP. It is an additional activity for those that are already taking part in the activities of the zone. People that are there and are questing or getting faction already intended to be there for other purposes.
So let's say you're there and you come across a resource spot, since you're there anyway why not pick some up and shuttle it back to the basecamp? There is no 'must' or time period other than the looming idea that the otherside may just get the extra buff that is going to help them continue their quests or even help them pk your buffless self.
Any feeling of 'grind' that comes from this will be something brought on by the player themself. It's a choice issue. Are you the type that wants to beat the other side to the extra buff and claim a moral victory? Or, are you the type that just doesn't care and maybe picks up some Silithyst and turns it in every now and then? It's a factional activity too so anyone can take part as much or as little as they want.
(I forgot who asked this but no you can't destroy the other player's hub.)
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9057192 |
Poster: Nethaera at 7/14/2006 9:25:43 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Sand? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
You didn't just say that having Castles to storm would be bad for PvP, you couldn't have said that...
I know your job these days pretty much sucks, but at least give us some hope for the PvP game other than ...sand...
Sand IS the mind killer
No Celedon. That isn't what I said. I said making it a part of an outdoor activity wasn't seen as something beneficial to an already heavy activity zone/s.
Please remember that there will also be new Battlegrounds and other things that are being planned and this is just one aspect of a lot of new content that is being developed.
Again, I realize people want to seige cities without the fear of DKs. The Developers realize this too but there are other things to consider when looking at the situation and those things ARE being considered and looked at.
I also realize that my answers aren't always going to make people happy or make people jump for joy. Some people are going to be interested in what I have to say, some won't like it and some are already predisposed to hate everything no matter what I said. ;) I'm still going to urge people to please test before you pass judgement. We still have yet to see how these things really work under 'normal' circumstances.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9055993&p=#post9057861 |
