Poster: Basic at 6/27/2006 3:05:41 PM PDT
Subject: Crafting as alternative, ex-SWG correspondant |
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To summarize: in my personal opinion a crafting focuses MMO does not make business sense for Blizzard because it is not an appealing core game mechanic for most players.
My trusty "Blue tracker" turned me on to this thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=8852081
To which Tseric responded:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=8852081&P=2#blizzard
Q u o t e:
I think the simplest explanation for this matter is that we prefer to have players gain advancement and loot through monster killing as a primary source. Having a crafting system that serves as primary source for advancement can draw focus and value away from dungeon loot. While this is interesting in a player-generated, economical sense, it doesn't really play to the strengths of this game. We are interested in having people travelling and adventuring in the world, and loot provides this incentive.
Even if there was no raiding in the game, you would still have this distinction between loot through kills or crafting.
Now a lot of you don't or won't understand why, but I believe I have the MMOG experiences to communicate this to you.
I was Ifele Oegirt, 2nd or 3rd Developer Correspondant for the Artisan class in Star Wars Galaxies. I was there during the test cycle when player-crafter speeders were released. My dissapointment in the attention payed to that patch as well as the priority given to crafting improvements contributed to my departure. (of course Monika T'sarn single-handedly destroying several <IB> bases, tho subsequently banned for exploiting, didn't help either)
There is a fundamental problem that is created when you invest too much in a MMOG's crafting system: you might force players to choose between the PvE/PvP game and the crafting game.
In SWG the choice was insanely stark! You could not be a Bounty Hunter or Beast Master and a tier 2 crafter. There simply weren't enough skill points to allow you to choose both trees. The best I ever did was master TKA (think "monk"), master artisan, and a modest amount of points into rifleman. However if I wanted to explore a 2nd tier craft I would have to sacrifice a great deal of battlefield versatility.
WoW offers a great alternative: not only do we have free alts, but each character is both a master of their chosen craft and a class which is either a neccessary raiding role or an excellent PvP choice, or both!
Most importantly this determines how you spend your game time. You have the option to gather resources as you explore and fight and experience the core content of the game. Without that option the majority of the game content is devoted to other players and not to you. In that case what reason would you have to continue playing a game that is litterally not being made for you?
You may think that allowing players to craft items equal or better than tier 2's would make crafting more viable, but it would either make raiding worthless or it would create a different kind of hardcore player.
Either of those outcomes would require Blizzard to spend a great amount of effort in developing an overall satisfying crafting experience. (or they could let players make do with the system as is - and the overall game quality would suffer)
More time invested in a crafting system would certainly detract from content creation. When I look at games like WoW, EQ, AO, and SWG the creation of a complex crafting system is IMO less appealing to the overwhelming majority of subscribers than the PvE and PvP content.
I would love to hear about how crafting can be a satisfying game experience. I feel that I am one of those people who can be satisfied by craft/trade content, but I don't think that I am anywhere near the average MMOG player.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8854442&p=#post8854442 | | | Poster: Tseric at 6/27/2006 3:26:18 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Crafting as alternative, ex-SWG correspon |
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Thanks for your opinions on the matter. I replied to that other thread in hopes that people would like to discuss the issues of game design between crafting and looting. Unfortunately, it became another 'raid or quit' cacophony, unwilling to dispassionately observe any nuance in the subject. Too bad.
I, too, have played other games in which crafting was rather robust or expansive. SWG, UO, Horizons to name a few. While I, personally, enjoy crafting new items and equipping them, I can't ignore that crafting easily becomes grinding by sheer fact that most systems involve creating several of one item as the best course for leveling your skill.
By, as you said, making it an option rather than a central focus, it can be integrated into the game in a way that keeps it more fun. In a way it can be boiled down to one question:
If you spent the same amount of time to get an item by killing monsters or by straight crafting, which would players prefer?
While there may be a number of folks who take pleasure in that kind of grinding(can be an activity while socializing or what have you), a lot of players do like the more active component of killing for loot.
Anyways, let's see how unbiased and reasonable we can make this thread.[ post edited by Tseric ]
http://weallneedtherapy.ytmnd.com/
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8854442&p=#post8854714 | Poster: Tseric at 6/27/2006 4:46:18 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Crafting as alternative, ex-SWG correspon |
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Q u o t e:
I'd like to point out a possible solution to the desire to be able to make decent gear via crafting.
What if most craftable items became socketable? Like they do now they start off with low stats but unlike Raid gear you can socket jems to mold the stats to what you need. This would make them not superior to raid gear, the stats would still be overall lower and thus lower item value, but you would have chosen how your stats were layed out. Trading raw power for flexibility.
You mean, like we're doing in the expansion?
http://weallneedtherapy.ytmnd.com/
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8854442&p=#post8855975 | Poster: Tseric at 6/27/2006 4:53:31 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Crafting as alternative, ex-SWG correspon |
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Q u o t e:
Hey Tseric that brings up a question I had about jewelcrafting. One will all weapons and armor be socketable and will that include all past items. So for example I get the expansion will all the items my toon is wearing be socketable?
I don't know about all patterns or exactly how it will break down by numbers, but I think there will be retro-active upgrades to some patterns and additional new patterns. Leaning more heavily to the retro-active changes, because socketing is being added onto existing mechanics, so old patterns will have to be distinguished in the new system. Basically, it seems as though retro-active changes will be quicker to implement than a host of all-new, socketed patterns for every level range.
http://weallneedtherapy.ytmnd.com/
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8854442&p=#post8856077 |
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