Poster: Gosp at 6/26/2006 7:51:05 AM PDT
Subject: Are shamans done? |
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Are we left with 2 trees... one for PvP and one for PvE?
Elemental shamans can't PvE
Restoration shamans can't PvP
so... do we get another half-assed review or are all the shamans done.
There actually IS a cow level. It's called Mulgore.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8838648 |
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Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 8:34:05 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? |
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I can't answer on this specifically other than to go under the premise that just like no MMO is ever truly done, no balancing is truly ever done either. There is always the potential for a class to be looked at again sometime in the future but right now the team is working on the Rogue review as well as the next patches and the expansion pack which involves a lot of content.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8839277 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 8:50:44 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? |
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Q u o t e:
Please answer me this one question nethaera. Does blizzard test all content with a horde raid. Also do any of the dev's/CM play a raiding horde character? Just curious since blizzard seems intent on making horde a much weaker raiding faction.
We have people that raid on both sides (Alliance and Horde). So to answer your question, yes there are people that play at the top end of the game and raid. I don't believe there is any intention on making the Horde any weaker at raiding than the Alliance.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8839536 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 10:00:42 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? |
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Q u o t e:
Insofar as I can understand, when the rogue talent review is done, the gross overhauls of classes will be finished, and what will commence is a refinement process.
This is pretty much the idea at current. I am by no means saying 'this is it forever' to anyone. The very nature of MMOs are that they do and will change. However, those changes are commiserate on time. The devs have alot on their plates and are doing everything they can to not only maintain and improve what exists but to create new and interesting content that they hope people will enjoy.
I will say for myself that I don't play a Shaman. (Though I have played one before to a degree.) I've fought with them in raids however and have always found them to be great additions to the raid. They are always wanted/needed in those raids.
Do I personally believe that the Alliance has an easier time in raids than Horde? Sure. Do I believe it's impossible for the Horde to accomplish what the Alliance accomplishes? No.
While Shaman totems don't move with a Shaman as they go through the raid, the consideration for mana costs was put in so that they cost less to recast making it easier for Shaman to put them down as the raid moves. Paladins don't get to put up more than one seal at a time but Shaman can put down more than one totem. In effect, this is the point at which there is the intention that it evens out the disparity between the Horde and Alliance.
I realize that some people will feel this falls short of the mark. Some would probably go further than that. I can understand that feeling. Will more adjustments be done in the future to help even out this perception? I can't say a definite 'yes' but I would say that it is always a possibility for future consideration.
Please keep in mind when I say it's a possibility I'm only saying that because I'm aware of the very tight schedule the developers are on now and I don't want to give the false impression that they have any extra time to squeeze more things in than they are already working on. That's for them to decide and then inform us (the Community Team) of so that we can relay that information to you.[ post edited by Nethaera ]
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8840551 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 10:13:38 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? |
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Q u o t e:
so basically when blizz told us the shaman review would continue to 1.12 that was a complete and blatant lie?
kthx.
That's the thing with this industry. It can be extremely hard to foresee what could come up and possibly cause something to get pushed back. Any information that you've gotten to this point was as accurate as we believed it to be. To say it's a lie would mean there was an actual purposeful intent to deceive and I can tell you there hasn't been any such intent. (I know, that seems to be my word today 'intent'.)
Hopefully we'll be able to get more information on when there will be more done in regard to the Shaman class sooner than later but honestly right now there isn't alot more we can do but keep asking.
I know it's not what people want to hear right now but it's what we can give. Eyonix's hands are as tied as mine about this and once we know more we'll let you all know as well.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8840783 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 11:49:30 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? |
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The idea of comparing the seals to the totems isn't meant to be all encompassing. It's just a very small comparison into how they work. It certainly wasn't meant to say Paladins = Shaman. It was just showing two abilities that are limited in nature and yet limited in different ways. (Hopefully that makes some sense.) Both have their limitations and those limitations come under consideration when making adjustments to them.
I am not worried about the quotes that will come back to haunt me so much. I know it will happen now and then. ;) It's all par for the course.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8842481 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 12:52:48 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? |
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Lusharasou, I completely admit that I am no Shaman expert. My references are coming from a discussion I had with the devs. It's most likely the best comparison they can come up with to try to demonstrate part of their thinking. However, in order to get every detail of their thinking on these things would involve far more time than they have right now and most likely technology to jack into their brains. They are under a very tight schedule and as always working long hours to meet their goals both for their own personal satisfaction of getting it done (and done right) but also to meet the expectations of the fans as well as they possibly can. They do care about players being happy with what they are creating and implementing and don't live in a bubble in that regard.
When I say limitations, my general insight is that it's all both a part of progressive balancing (ie "How do we balance properly for PvE and PvP?") as well as matter of taking into account the very scope of work that would be needed to make the changes. How long will it take in development? How would it affect other systems? What other checks and balances need to be put into place to realize these changes? etc.
There are always plenty of factors that get taken into account when bringing up possible changes to any class or part of the world. When doing massive changes it can bring about many new bugs and issues that were unexpected. By working with the systems that are in place and finding ways to improve those, the developers minimize the bugs that can occur as well as minimize the time it takes to make the changes they hope people want most. If for some reason the angels descend from the heavens and grant extra time, I'm sure the Developers will take advantage of that time to do more with the things most pressing.
(I'd also like to point out to the other poster that I would prefer not to be staple gunned to the forums. ;/ I need to eat sometimes and I hear sleep can be sort of nice too.)
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8843728 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 11:49:30 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? *edited post* |
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The idea of comparing the seals to the totems isn't meant to be all encompassing. It's just a very small comparison into how they work. It certainly wasn't meant to say Paladins = Shaman. It was just showing two abilities that are limited in nature and yet limited in different ways. (Hopefully that makes some sense.) Both have their limitations and those limitations come under consideration when making adjustments to them.
I am not worried about the quotes that will come back to haunt me so much. I know it will happen now and then. ;) It's all par for the course.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8842481 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 12:52:48 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? *edited post* |
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Lusharasou, I completely admit that I am no Shaman expert. My references are coming from a discussion I had with the devs. It's most likely the best comparison they can come up with to try to demonstrate part of their thinking. However, in order to get every detail of their thinking on these things would involve far more time than they have right now and most likely technology to jack into their brains. They are under a very tight schedule and as always working long hours to meet their goals both for their own personal satisfaction of getting it done (and done right) but also to meet the expectations of the fans as well as they possibly can. They do care about players being happy with what they are creating and implementing and don't live in a bubble in that regard.
When I say limitations, my general insight is that it's all both a part of progressive balancing (ie "How do we balance properly for PvE and PvP?") as well as matter of taking into account the very scope of work that would be needed to make the changes. How long will it take in development? How would it affect other systems? What other checks and balances need to be put into place to realize these changes? etc.
There are always plenty of factors that get taken into account when bringing up possible changes to any class or part of the world. When doing massive changes it can bring about many new bugs and issues that were unexpected. By working with the systems that are in place and finding ways to improve those, the developers minimize the bugs that can occur as well as minimize the time it takes to make the changes they hope people want most. If for some reason the angels descend from the heavens and grant extra time, I'm sure the Developers will take advantage of that time to do more with the things most pressing.
(I'd also like to point out to the other poster that I would prefer not to be staple gunned to the forums. ;/ I need to eat sometimes and I hear sleep can be sort of nice too.)
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8843728 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 10:00:42 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Insofar as I can understand, when the rogue talent review is done, the gross overhauls of classes will be finished, and what will commence is a refinement process.
This is pretty much the idea at current. I am by no means saying 'this is it forever' to anyone. The very nature of MMOs are that they do and will change. However, those changes are commiserate on time. The devs have alot on their plates and are doing everything they can to not only maintain and improve what exists but to create new and interesting content that they hope people will enjoy.
I will say for myself that I don't play a Shaman. (Though I have played one before to a degree.) I've fought with them in raids however and have always found them to be great additions to the raid. They are always wanted/needed in those raids.
Do I personally believe that the Alliance has an easier time in raids than Horde? Sure. Do I believe it's impossible for the Horde to accomplish what the Alliance accomplishes? No.
While Shaman totems don't move with a Shaman as they go through the raid, the consideration for mana costs was put in so that they cost less to recast making it easier for Shaman to put them down as the raid moves. Paladins don't get to put up more than one seal at a time but Shaman can put down more than one totem. In effect, this is the point at which there is the intention that it evens out the disparity between the Horde and Alliance.
I realize that some people will feel this falls short of the mark. Some would probably go further than that. I can understand that feeling. Will more adjustments be done in the future to help even out this perception? I can't say a definite 'yes' but I would say that it is always a possibility for future consideration.
Please keep in mind when I say it's a possibility I'm only saying that because I'm aware of the very tight schedule the developers are on now and I don't want to give the false impression that they have any extra time to squeeze more things in than they are already working on. That's for them to decide and then inform us (the Community Team) of so that we can relay that information to you.[ post edited by Nethaera ]
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8840551 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 10:13:38 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
so basically when blizz told us the shaman review would continue to 1.12 that was a complete and blatant lie?
kthx.
That's the thing with this industry. It can be extremely hard to foresee what could come up and possibly cause something to get pushed back. Any information that you've gotten to this point was as accurate as we believed it to be. To say it's a lie would mean there was an actual purposeful intent to deceive and I can tell you there hasn't been any such intent. (I know, that seems to be my word today 'intent'.)
Hopefully we'll be able to get more information on when there will be more done in regard to the Shaman class sooner than later but honestly right now there isn't alot more we can do but keep asking.
I know it's not what people want to hear right now but it's what we can give. Eyonix's hands are as tied as mine about this and once we know more we'll let you all know as well.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8840783 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 11:49:30 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? *edited post* |
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The idea of comparing the seals to the totems isn't meant to be all encompassing. It's just a very small comparison into how they work. It certainly wasn't meant to say Paladins = Shaman. It was just showing two abilities that are limited in nature and yet limited in different ways. (Hopefully that makes some sense.) Both have their limitations and those limitations come under consideration when making adjustments to them.
I am not worried about the quotes that will come back to haunt me so much. I know it will happen now and then. ;) It's all par for the course.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8842481 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 10:13:38 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
so basically when blizz told us the shaman review would continue to 1.12 that was a complete and blatant lie?
kthx.
That's the thing with this industry. It can be extremely hard to foresee what could come up and possibly cause something to get pushed back. Any information that you've gotten to this point was as accurate as we believed it to be. To say it's a lie would mean there was an actual purposeful intent to deceive and I can tell you there hasn't been any such intent. (I know, that seems to be my word today 'intent'.)
Hopefully we'll be able to get more information on when there will be more done in regard to the Shaman class sooner than later but honestly right now there isn't alot more we can do but keep asking.
I know it's not what people want to hear right now but it's what we can give. Eyonix's hands are as tied as mine about this and once we know more we'll let you all know as well.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8840783 |
Poster: Nethaera at 6/26/2006 11:49:30 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Are shamans done? *edited post* |
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The idea of comparing the seals to the totems isn't meant to be all encompassing. It's just a very small comparison into how they work. It certainly wasn't meant to say Paladins = Shaman. It was just showing two abilities that are limited in nature and yet limited in different ways. (Hopefully that makes some sense.) Both have their limitations and those limitations come under consideration when making adjustments to them.
I am not worried about the quotes that will come back to haunt me so much. I know it will happen now and then. ;) It's all par for the course.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8838648&p=#post8842481 |
