Poster: Bialar at 1/21/2006 4:59:17 AM PST
Subject: Apologia of the Solo Gamer, cont. |
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Previous thread appears to be broken:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6664104&p=1
Dromdol's original post:
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I see it on the boards now and then, the dismissal of the solo gamer. "Go play xxxx-xx" they say, where xxxx-xx is some game they deem individual player friendly. Others, including mods and CMs, may not quite dismiss the solo player, but they diminish or mischaracterize who we are and what we want.
I'd like to say a few words to clarify matters.
Who are you?
I am the solo gamer. I do not play in groups or raids; I avoid guild activity. The vast majority of my play is spent duoing with a single partner. Technically, this makes me a "duo gamer", but for the point of the discussion, there is little deviation from my wants and needs from my solo time to that of my duo time.
While I am an avid PvPer, I disdain duels and find the controlled, limited environment of the Battlegrounds unfulfilling. I play hard, I have two 60s right now, and am working on both my 3rd and 4th 60. My characters have respectable (sometimes superb) gear for their levels, though as raid content expands, I fall ever further behind the maximum curve.
Are you a casual or a raider?
I am not a casual gamer. I play 3-5 hours on an average night, and 8-10 hours on weekends and holidays. When the honor system first came out, I invested enough time to achieve top 10 status on my server, though the lustre of that quickly faded, and the implementation of the BG system ruined "honor" for me.
I am not a raider. By choice, I do not participate in large group activities. This is not a limitation of time, but of preference. I despise large guilds and the accompanying drama. I don't find raids to contribute to "teamwork" but rather that they contribute to my stress levels.
Have you experienced raiding?
To cut-off the argument that I should give the big group scene another go, a brief history. In my first MMO (WoW is my 4th) I was a guild leader for a 500+ person guild. My job was to act as a raid coordinator. I lead large group actions and coordinated quests to help the guild get ahead.
Since moving on from that game and guild, I have participated in large guild activity on many occassions, and in multiple games. From large scale player driven PvP battles to single strike boss raids to the lengthy time sinks that make up WoW 40 man play, I have done it. And done it again. And again until I don't want to do it anymore.
Why do you play MMOs then?
Many reasons exist to play MMOs besides the "mob gang mass zerg" experience. Reasons that keep me playing MMOs as opposed to linear individual games:
1) Player interaction.
Despite my slam on large guilds and large raids, I like dealing with people. From small groups being formed out of necessity to run 5-man dungeons to dynamic economic trade on the auction houses, I like the sense of being part of something larger and more intricate than myself.
2) Impact
In an individual game, even though the story may circle around my actions, my impact is limited to that scripted by the designers. In MMO, I can make a name for myself. People who deal with me in trade remember me. Every player I kill adds to my reputation as a PvPer (or ganker, depending on your point of view). My actions have a lasting impact, on the value of my name, if on nothing else.
3) Sheer size and depth.
No non-MMO can compete with the size and depth of the MMO genre. WoW is simply huge. It gives the illusion of immersion into a living, breathing world.
4) Competition
As I've mentioned, I PvP extensively. Matching up against the other sides best and trying to win is quite the thrill. Getting ambushed in the middle of the Plaguelands, turning the tables and winning against overwhelming odds gives me a sense of accomplishment and achievement. Sterile, "fair" scripted fights don't live up to the possibilities offered by tactics in an open, dynamic and living world.
5) Character advancement and content
In an individual game, once done, you put the game on the shelf to gather dust. An MMO is never really "finished". New content is added in patches. New goals offer fresh ways to experience old content, and player "made" content through direct PvP encounters abound. As the game grows, so too does the ability for my character to grow and develop. Talent builds, weapon choices, armor layouts all add to my sense of purpose and continued interaction.
So, what is it you want then?
What I, and others like me, want is quite simple:
The ability to continue to advance.
When our characters begin to stagnate, we lose much of the drive and purpose behind these games. I understand that powergaming types will hit the caps and boundaries faster than any developer can provide for us, that is why I have alts.
What I can't accept is the dead end we're being presented right now. We want the ability to progress, to continue building our characters, to have goals to work towards and for.
Do you want epics on a silver platter?
Absolutely not. Quite the opposite in fact. Hardcore solo gamers pride themselves on self-sufficiency and self-accomplishment. We don't wand hand-outs. We see the raid system as being dependent, a collectivist action to strip our independence from us. Proud and rugged, we turn on our back on the "easy" solution of riding the coat-tails of a large, mob force guild.
We want epics, and eventually legendaries and artifacts, just like everyone else does. We want to be able to make character progress through our own hard work and achievement, struggling, striving, and succeeding in a challenging and enrichening environment. We do not want to be forced to participate in a mob of people united not by fraternity, but by greed, for the accomplishment of even the most meager of our goals.
We want hard quests and difficult dungeons. We don't mind the difficult road, we just want a road that doesn't say "dead end".
Why can't you just raid like everyone else?
From 1 to 60, I loved WoW. I enjoyed the character creation, questing and advancement systems. I felt like the lore, expansive world and atmosphere contributed towards a long term participatory system. At 60, as we all know, the brakes come on, and hard. Where advancement used to be possible it now slows to a trinkle, and then a standstill, and then it stops moving at all.
I've done the Raid deal. I've done Onyxia and Ragnaros, I've run MC to mind-numbingness. I've compromised with my own wishes and the style of gaming I consider fun to participate in the what the game's given me, and now, as I play up my third character, I groan with the notion that to advance beyond the wall at 60 I'll have to sell myself out again. I don't want to do it.
Some of you will say you love your raiding guild and that you love raids. I couldn't be more glad for you. Though your style of gaming does not appeal to me, I can appreciate that you enjoy what you do. I don't want to take anything away from your playstyle. I just want *my* choice in playstyle to have an equitable respect.
In conclusion, the solo gamer isn't so different than any other gamer. We all want to experience what WoW has to offer, we all want to progress and advance our characters. We all want a sense of accomplishment. No other gaming form offers us the depth and scope of the MMO. We embrace that.
I feel that soloing is a valid, respectible choice. WoW deems so too, at least from 1 to 60. Only at the endgame has the balking, dodgy behaviour become apparent, and only at the post-60 epic doorway have soloers been denied entrance.
All we want is the ability to continue our advancement into the future, and the understanding of our fellow gamers as we make our own, sometimes eccentric way through the game.
Thank you for your time.
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Keep bumped! This is what, 3 broken threads now without a blue?[ post edited by Bialar ]
Ahh mercury, sweetest of the transition metals.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6755293&p=#post6755293 | | | Poster: Tseric at 1/21/2006 5:18:51 PM PST
Subject: Re: Apologia of the Solo Gamer, cont. |
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Q u o t e:
I disagree. Before Dromdol posted this thread, the CMs responded to non-raider threads, typically with sarcastic or intentionally obtuse replies. Tseric in particular claimed that nothing would be done since there was (paraphrasing) "no consistent non-raider voice".
I never responded sarcastically to this topic. If I was intentionally obtuse it was due to the fact that players want specifcs now (or at that time) which were not available. That I claimed that "nothing would be done since there was (paraphrasing) 'no consistent non-raider voice'", is not at all what I claimed or said as can be clearly evidenced by this statement made before this thread was created:
https://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6279154
Q u o t e:
Since Dromdol originally posted this, Tseric and the rest of the CMs have stopped discussing the issue. This post is exactly what Tseric and the others claimed did not exist.
Please note in the thread I linked, that I clearly stated we wanted to contain this discussion to a few threads, not the several-a-day which were occurring and clogging the boards. Commentary stopped from us because we said what we had to. Any further involvement would likely disrupt discussion rather than promote it.
Q u o t e:
Despite the best efforts of a few trolls, it's also survived 3 broken threads and remains a (generally) civil and intelligent discussion. It deserves a blue response as much as any thread that's ever been posted on the general forum.
For one, a good thread doesn't need blue. A good discussion stands on its own merit and encourages thought and understanding for the community as a whole. It does not help to reduce a thread's significance to the indicator of whether or not it has a blue tag next to it.
In closing, the attitude, perception and concerns of the OP have already been officially addressed and will continue to be with upcoming development. As before, we really don't have more to add to this discussion at this point. We will likely comment when we do, but probably not before then.
Bob is my co-pilot.
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