Poster: Jakhanna at 1/6/2006 10:00:54 AM PST
Subject: My problem with the CM's / Blizz feedback>>>> |
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You guys constantly say "How do we know what you are saying is in the majority, for all we know what you are saying is in the minority"
etc..
Then you can hide behind that because it's hard to say any thread or post is truly reflective of the community at large. I certainly haven't had a petition signed by all 5 million subscribers.
So why don't you do simple poll's via e-mail, an active server page, or in game mail?
You could finally answer the questions you discount by claiming 'not everyone wants this change' by allowing for simple majority rule.
Poll suggestions -
- Should civilians be set to non-targetable and not aggro during PVP attacks? YES or NO
- Would you prefer future content to be more 5-10 man content? YES or NO
Simple polls such as this would give you guys the feedback you need to find out what we, the customer, are wanting. But instead you guys just hide behind 'we have a vision for this game', and when a valid point is brought up by many people you say the above which is truly irritating. In leiu of me getting all 5 million people to read a thread with a suggestion, take the most prolific ones out there that appear DAY AFTER DAY and make a simple poll for them.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6556493&p=#post6556493 | | | Poster: Tseric at 1/6/2006 2:49:44 PM PST
Subject: Re: My problem with the CM's / Blizz feedback |
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Q u o t e:
You guys constantly say "How do we know what you are saying is in the majority, for all we know what you are saying is in the minority"
The few comments I have made that are similar to this, do not share the same meaning you are attempting to convey here. I do not say such things constantly or with the intentions you are portraying here.
I have said things which you regard as similar to your paraphrasing, but there is an important distinction to be made. In gathering valuable feedback, it is best communicated with little to no hyperbole and with as much specific detail as possible. Sometimes we must engage in discussion and disagreement to isolate specific concerns. Personally, I enjoy doing this on the forums, as it has a better feel and I, my team and the community can come to understand issues better through discussion.
I have commented on polls before. I do not discount potential value could be gained from them, but there is a potential detriment as well. Polls tend to serve better for marketing analysis than for trying to quanitify who thinks what is fun.
You should consider for a moment your suggested polls and how they are written. Effectively, (perhaps you just made them for examples) you are reducing issues of game design to "yes and no" interpretation. Let me explain why this can be detrimental.
The comments I made that you alluded to earlier were regarding the debate of progression after 60.
In those comments I was attempting to illustrate the idea that "casual" and "hardcore" are limited terms that players were using to group people into simple categories. This then serves the purpose of presenting a "with us or against us" argument that has been leveled against this company and more particularly against other players. Reducing things into black and white terms can have a divisive effect on a community, as can be readily seen with that debate.
Tangent:In regards to said debate, there are things we have been planning, for release in the near future, which are designed to address the matter of character advancement at level 60 for players who do not choose to raid. Feedback from these boards has been read and digested by many and incorporated into prior and ongoing development. This particular method of gauging the player's desires has been in place since before the inception of this game. I don't think anyone internally is that displeased with what it contributes. Anyways, back to the topic...
I think this black and white approach for many players comes from a basic core idea they share. They regard feedback as honoring and implementing suggestions. The value of these boards, for some players, are measured by the question, "how many ideas from the players go into direct implementation?". There is a different value or idea about what these boards should be about. There is also an idea that the players should see measurable returns from their participation on the boards and beyond that a desire to be involved in the process of development. I am wholly convinced that players make suggestions for the benefit of the game they enjoy playing, but I am also convinced that some do so with the desire to be recognized for their particular contribution, especially by the developers.
However, due to legal considerations, this is not really possible. Hence, we have a suggestion board for suggestions and a general board for feedback on various topics. The other boards (class, profession, etc.) are for feedback on more specific topics. It is in this context that feedback and suggestions are two very different things and should be considered as such.
Now, when we get back to polling, it could serve a few purposes. The polls would have to be written specifically to provide an objective sampling of the topics presented. Not an easy thing to do. Secondly, you would have to reduce some of the topics discussed into a managable form. Yes/No or some Multiple choice would be required for easy(if not automated) tallying. This rather reduces the effectiveness of a poll unless you hire on additional staff which could handle the workload of writing, administering and analyzing the polls and the data produced.
Aside from that, there would likely be other effects such a thing might have. What if, in one of these yes/no polls, every single one of your answers was not implemented or had elements in the game which were contrary to what was developed? I think more than a few players would be rather disenfranchised with such a thing and then use that as ammunition for arguments. Now the argument turns from "CMs are useless and don't really care" to the argument of "Blizzard is a faceless robot using simplistic polls to analyze their players, rather than listening to what we are saying.
Well, I am listening to you. I hear what you are saying and I hear things which you aren't saying. I hear you saying that you feel like your voice is ignored and you are looking for an acknowledgement of your issues. This acknowledgement can either be provided the way it is now, in this very thread, or it can be provide, as you suggest, by filling out a questionnaire. I think the questionnaire would not satisfy the desires you are really expressing here. I could be misreading it, however.[ post edited by Tseric ]
Original thought is an illusion. Extrapolation FTW.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6556493&p=#post6561011 | Poster: Tseric at 1/6/2006 4:14:39 PM PST
Subject: Re: My problem with the CM's / Blizz feedback |
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Q u o t e:
The spin just gets better and better.
Why not try to get behind an idea first before you put the kibosh on it?
Obviously, as *others* have stated, the poll would not have to be YES/NO. Obviously, there is a right and a wrong way to phrase questions but rather than consider that you just say, in way too many words, nah, not a good idea because YES/NO polls are misleading. Wonderful.
Be up front, be concise, be professional.
What spin? What kibosh? It is my job to provide some alternate opinions or considerations to fuel discussion.
This is practically the exact same thing that happened last time I commented on polls. I offered some other considerations about polling and looked to see varied feedback. Most people read that as "NO, NOT GONNA HAPPEN" when in fact I said nothing of the sort.
Part of the issue here is that some think this one discussion is going to flip the switch on whether we implement polls or not. This is exactly the kind of black and white thinking I was talking about. It is very much that attitude that prevents delving into deeper issues. It is that which keeps all matters at a superficial level of "Blizz agrees or disagrees and that determines whether something is implemented or not".
We are here to discuss topics. I presented a reasoned counter-point to the discussion at hand. You are making a post about how I am a biased individual. This is not furthering the dicussion of polls, but rather deals with issue you take with me, personally.
Original thought is an illusion. Extrapolation FTW.
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