Poster: Zajann at 12/23/2005 12:57:20 AM PST
Subject: Undead really "evil"? |
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So i've been reading some debates on here lately about whose more evil, horde or alliance, and i've noticed most people say "Well, the horde isnt evil, with the exception of the undead", and i find myself asking.. how are they "evil", so to speak?
I guess most would figure animated corpses walking around would generally be evil, and i kind of thought that too, but the more I play into the undead quests and whatnot, I really don't see how. Now I know how the undead are with the horde for "conveniance" and to kind of use them as a tool, but, I dunno, I just don't see where everyone see's the undead as being really evil.
Also, just as a "side question": Does the undead really dislike the other horde races? I guess it goes hand in hand with the undead being evil, but do the undead really not like them and would let them all die in a second, or do they really like them at all? I like to hope and think that they do, becuase I love all the horde races, and the story behind them and stuff, so i'd hope they don't just have them as allies just for the hell of it.
Anyways, that was a lot of rambling. It's 4 AM and I cant think straight to save my life. Lets hear your thoughts =P : )
Thanks
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Poster: Tseric at 12/23/2005 1:32:14 AM PST
Subject: Re: Undead really "evil"? |
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Well, when you consider the fact that conventional morality and the notions of good and evil are based on the drive for a collective protection and understanding (self-preservation if you will) of society, the introduction of life after death can cause a bit of a conundrum.
I mean, look at it. Morality is one letter away from Mortality.
What kind of social conventions do you expect from a culture that has no fear of the after-life? They certainly expect to outlast any other culture they may exist with. Could that not engender a petty disregard for life itself?
The here and now encompasses more than here and now.
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Poster: Tseric at 12/23/2005 1:34:59 AM PST
Subject: Re: Undead really "evil"? |
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Q u o t e:
still up @ 1:30 am?
and still rockin philosophy, yes. ;)
The here and now encompasses more than here and now.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6362598&p=#post6362802 |
Poster: Tseric at 12/23/2005 1:40:52 AM PST
Subject: Re: Undead really "evil"? |
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Q u o t e:
But this morality would be radically different for the other members of the horde. Tuaren value life, the orcs want the horde as a whole to be successfull, not just them. In that regard the forsaken are selfish and destructive, and flat out evil. Why do the other races of the horde choose to ally with them?
Selfish and destructive, yes. It is the Tauren and Orc culture that place the value judgements on them. Tauren see a broader scope, rather than the fate the Forsaken are obsessed with themselves. Thrall is magnanimous and encompassing in that he looks towards the fate of his people and in that, Azeroth as a whole. Not dissimilar to Tauren earth-worship. The Forsaken are a temporal benefit, in having intimate understanding of a common enemy. As the saying goes, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".[ post edited by Tseric ]
The here and now encompasses more than here and now.
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Poster: Tseric at 12/23/2005 2:04:52 AM PST
Subject: Re: Undead really "evil"? |
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Q u o t e:
This would work if the forsaken existed in a vacuum. However, the forsaken are a created race (created by the developers), which means they were created in an environment where morality was present. The creators of the race could not possibly avoid comparing the undead quests to what is generally considered to be "right" by society, and thus they (and the forsaken by extension) chose to ignore it, which is generally considered to fall under the label of "evil"
Dude, you're meta-gaming. Don't reframe the debate. We can talk about lore in the game or the people who made it, not both.
Q u o t e:
Anyways- if a society was created with the distinct knowledge that barring outside interference, they would live forever I would expect to see far more patience in the undead. Why attempt to thwart an enemy when you simply have to wait until they are dead?
You discard the notion that there are fates worse than death. As the Forsaken have been enslaved and still may be (somewhat) human, they may engender human responses such as revenge.
The here and now encompasses more than here and now.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6362598&p=#post6362982 |
Poster: Tseric at 12/23/2005 2:37:27 AM PST
Subject: Re: Forsaken really "evil"? |
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Q u o t e:
One thing to keep in mind when it comes to the Forsaken and their quest to find a new plague.
Are they just trying to kill everyone? Or are they finding ways to reproduce?
Think about it, they cannot have children the "natural" way, since they are dead, and the only way they can increase their numbers is by freeing the Scourge.
Despite popular belief, the Forsaken do not have any Necromancers amongst them, only the Scourge do. So is it possible the plague is a way of boosting their numbers without having to rely on Scourge "recruits?"
Just my 2 coppers.
Solid point.
The here and now encompasses more than here and now.
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