Poster: Agielf at 12/14/2005 5:58:37 PM PST
Subject: WoW is NOT for casuals. |
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WoW is NOT for casuals, unless by casual they mean level to 60 run strath/dm/scholo/BRS 10 times each then get bored out of your mind and leave.
Caydiem has sealed this game shut for me pretty much with her comment that the devs have simply "evened out the number of instances for raids vs 5-10man". TOTAL BS.
Every server i see has MORE people NOT running 40 man instances than people that DO run them.
Im tired of sitting in orgrimmar LFG because no one wants to run scholo/dm/brs/strath for the 50th time.
Battlegrounds is complete trash at 60. Equipment balance is gone completely and makes it no fun whatsoever.
I WILL leave for the next good MMO, possibly D&DO since they will actually use rules where classes server certain purposes - IE every class isnt rogue-damage.
To sum up - WoW = EQ = 40man Raid = unbalance = NOT FOR CASUAL.
No you may not have my equipment it will rot with my account.
DISCLAIMER - IMO casual means you dont care for 40 man time syncs. I play alot, however i dont have the consecutive time to wait for a raid to organize and start, I also do have somewhat of a life and cant "schedule" 8pm on friday for a raid that takes 5 hours.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6241565 |
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Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 6:24:22 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. |
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World of Warcraft may not fit your definition of casual, Agielf, but your definition is not universal, I'm afraid.
A large part of the problem with this whole "casual vs. hardcore" debate is that both "sides" can often take the large number of people who more or less fit their demographic, be it "casual" or "hardcore", and use them to say "Here are my beliefs, and all these people agree with me." There are countless facets of casual playstyle, and what may not jive with you at all may fit well into someone else's idea of casual play.
As such, kindly stop claiming that World of Warcraft is not for casual players at all because you feel we are not catering to your particular playstyle. The game supports a wealth of playstyles, but we do not have infinite resources and the shipped raid game was indeed lacking. I can understand feeling frustration at the current focus of bringing it up to speed when you feel it isn't for you, but many people who fit the casual profile are indeed experiencing raid content. Perhaps not at a "hardcore" pace, but they can experience it given time. It is not closed off to those with a casual playstyle.
As a side note, the PvP system will be looked at in depth and significant changes are planned, but that will not occur for some time due to the depth of the review.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6241822 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 6:46:47 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. |
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Q u o t e:
Come on Caydiem, you've seen all the posts recently. WoW 1-59 is for casual. WoW level 60 is most definitely NOT, and that's where most people are right now.
Be honest, please.
I am being honest.
I have seen casual guilds -- no more than 15 active members, who play maybe 10 hours per week, 20 at most -- band together with other similar guilds to run Molten Core weekly. They don't do it quickly, but they do it, and they are getting epics. This is becoming a more and more common occurrence every day.
Now, this may not fit your definition of casual play, and I'm not saying all casual players can do something like this, but I am saying it's happening. The primary point of my post was to address the fact that all casuals are not playing precisely how you play casually, and stating that all casual players are behind your particular frustration, mentality, or what-have-you is a fallacy. It's a multifaceted argument, and no one person can truthfully represent either "side" by expressing their personal views. Just represent your own personal playstyle and there's no problem as far as this everlasting debate goes. ;)
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242061 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:20:05 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. |
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Q u o t e:
sigh :(
So after the three million posts on this subject you're saying that if you don't like to raid this game isn't for you?
I'm glad to see all those comments during closed beta that "Raids will not be the only end game" were just BS.....after all casuals are doing MC so that must mean it's a casual end game :(
Please, make no mistake -- we're not ignoring the desire for non-raid content. Our developers are well aware of the desire for such, but it is no easier to create than raid content, and again, we did need to polish off the raid content, which lacked when we shipped the game initially. That does not mean that nothing but raid content will be added from now on -- the designers plan on continuing their support for all playstyles. You may feel neglected with Ahn'Qiraj, and for that I apologize, but you are not forgotten.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242514 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:24:25 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. |
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Q u o t e:
Spin for the win ...
The truth is, you guys blew it. You let Tigole, Furor, and their EQ buddies convince you that endgame = raid and that everyone loves to raid.
Again, this is utterly incorrect.
Tigole is not the only person designing this game. The designers have a variety of experience from past games, both in creation and play. Tigole did not magically brainwash everyone to believe in what he enjoys, and there are a number of "casual" style players on the design team. Any design decision goes through many hands before becoming reality, and Tigole does not lord over this. Furor doesn't even touch raid design more often than not. So kindly stop perpetuating this complete and utter lie.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242548 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:32:31 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. |
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Q u o t e:
Im wasting my time posting.
Furor even being allowed in the building sums it up.
What does Furor do then?
Is he re-working the PvP System? Guess there will be a dragon in WSG to kill then.
Quests.
He does a lot of non-raid content, actually. Some quests for raids (and thus his minor, minor involvement therein), but quests are his primary focus.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242654 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:39:23 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. |
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Q u o t e:
Caydiem, it is a simple question:
Will raiding continue to be the only viable endgame for WoW?
If not, give us concrete examples of what you are implementing and the timetable for same.
You're asking for something I can't give at the moment, to be perfectly honest.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242731 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:20:05 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
sigh :(
So after the three million posts on this subject you're saying that if you don't like to raid this game isn't for you?
I'm glad to see all those comments during closed beta that "Raids will not be the only end game" were just BS.....after all casuals are doing MC so that must mean it's a casual end game :(
Please, make no mistake -- we're not ignoring the desire for non-raid content. Our developers are well aware of the desire for such, but it is no easier to create than raid content, and again, we did need to polish off the raid content, which lacked when we shipped the game initially. That does not mean that nothing but raid content will be added from now on -- the designers plan on continuing their support for all playstyles. You may feel neglected with Ahn'Qiraj, and for that I apologize, but you are not forgotten.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242514 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:24:25 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Spin for the win ...
The truth is, you guys blew it. You let Tigole, Furor, and their EQ buddies convince you that endgame = raid and that everyone loves to raid.
Again, this is utterly incorrect.
Tigole is not the only person designing this game. The designers have a variety of experience from past games, both in creation and play. Tigole did not magically brainwash everyone to believe in what he enjoys, and there are a number of "casual" style players on the design team. Any design decision goes through many hands before becoming reality, and Tigole does not lord over this. Furor doesn't even touch raid design more often than not. So kindly stop perpetuating this complete and utter lie.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242548 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:39:23 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Caydiem, it is a simple question:
Will raiding continue to be the only viable endgame for WoW?
If not, give us concrete examples of what you are implementing and the timetable for same.
You're asking for something I can't give at the moment, to be perfectly honest.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242731 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 6:24:22 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. *edited post* |
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World of Warcraft may not fit your definition of casual, Agielf, but your definition is not universal, I'm afraid.
A large part of the problem with this whole "casual vs. hardcore" debate is that both "sides" can often take the large number of people who more or less fit their demographic, be it "casual" or "hardcore", and use them to say "Here are my beliefs, and all these people agree with me." There are countless facets of casual playstyle, and what may not jive with you at all may fit well into someone else's idea of casual play.
As such, kindly stop claiming that World of Warcraft is not for casual players at all because you feel we are not catering to your particular playstyle. The game supports a wealth of playstyles, but we do not have infinite resources and the shipped raid game was indeed lacking. I can understand feeling frustration at the current focus of bringing it up to speed when you feel it isn't for you, but many people who fit the casual profile are indeed experiencing raid content. Perhaps not at a "hardcore" pace, but they can experience it given time. It is not closed off to those with a casual playstyle.
As a side note, the PvP system will be looked at in depth and significant changes are planned, but that will not occur for some time due to the depth of the review.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6241822 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 6:46:47 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Come on Caydiem, you've seen all the posts recently. WoW 1-59 is for casual. WoW level 60 is most definitely NOT, and that's where most people are right now.
Be honest, please.
I am being honest.
I have seen casual guilds -- no more than 15 active members, who play maybe 10 hours per week, 20 at most -- band together with other similar guilds to run Molten Core weekly. They don't do it quickly, but they do it, and they are getting epics. This is becoming a more and more common occurrence every day.
Now, this may not fit your definition of casual play, and I'm not saying all casual players can do something like this, but I am saying it's happening. The primary point of my post was to address the fact that all casuals are not playing precisely how you play casually, and stating that all casual players are behind your particular frustration, mentality, or what-have-you is a fallacy. It's a multifaceted argument, and no one person can truthfully represent either "side" by expressing their personal views. Just represent your own personal playstyle and there's no problem as far as this everlasting debate goes. ;)
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242061 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:20:05 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
sigh :(
So after the three million posts on this subject you're saying that if you don't like to raid this game isn't for you?
I'm glad to see all those comments during closed beta that "Raids will not be the only end game" were just BS.....after all casuals are doing MC so that must mean it's a casual end game :(
Please, make no mistake -- we're not ignoring the desire for non-raid content. Our developers are well aware of the desire for such, but it is no easier to create than raid content, and again, we did need to polish off the raid content, which lacked when we shipped the game initially. That does not mean that nothing but raid content will be added from now on -- the designers plan on continuing their support for all playstyles. You may feel neglected with Ahn'Qiraj, and for that I apologize, but you are not forgotten.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242514 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:24:25 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Spin for the win ...
The truth is, you guys blew it. You let Tigole, Furor, and their EQ buddies convince you that endgame = raid and that everyone loves to raid.
Again, this is utterly incorrect.
Tigole is not the only person designing this game. The designers have a variety of experience from past games, both in creation and play. Tigole did not magically brainwash everyone to believe in what he enjoys, and there are a number of "casual" style players on the design team. Any design decision goes through many hands before becoming reality, and Tigole does not lord over this. Furor doesn't even touch raid design more often than not. So kindly stop perpetuating this complete and utter lie.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242548 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:32:31 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Im wasting my time posting.
Furor even being allowed in the building sums it up.
What does Furor do then?
Is he re-working the PvP System? Guess there will be a dragon in WSG to kill then.
Quests.
He does a lot of non-raid content, actually. Some quests for raids (and thus his minor, minor involvement therein), but quests are his primary focus.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242654 |
Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 7:39:23 PM PST
Subject: Re: WoW is NOT for casuals. *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Caydiem, it is a simple question:
Will raiding continue to be the only viable endgame for WoW?
If not, give us concrete examples of what you are implementing and the timetable for same.
You're asking for something I can't give at the moment, to be perfectly honest.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6241565&p=#post6242731 |
