Poster: Serpentor at 12/12/2005 7:46:54 AM PST
Subject: Some ideas on how to appease casual gamers |
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I consider myself a casual gamer. I have 2 60s, and yes, this took a while, but I still consider myself casual. Here's why:
I may have spent a considerable amount of time playing WoW, but I've never "scheduled" it. I've never told someone "no I can't go out saturday night, I've got an MC raid." Basically, I play when I happen to have free time and there's nothing else I'd rather be doing. I don't PLAN it. I may very well end up playing 6 hours straight - but I didn't commit to that when I got on. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with players who do, but that is what I would consider more "hardcore" since you are making it an integral part of your life -- not just an enjoyable pass-time.
However, whether or not someone is a casual player really isn't this issue here. The fact that so many people are unhappy with the endgame content is.
My erradic play style worked great while leveling 1-60... the longest time commitment I ever had to make is a couple of hours for an instance, and even that didn't have to be planned in advance. I could get on... play some, and basically log off whenever I wanted. If someone called me and said they wanted to go do something in an hour -- I was never in the middle of an obligation to a 6 hour raid.
So this gets to my main point. The reason so many people are unhappy with the endgame content is NOT because its all raid content... it is because it requires scheduled time commitments. You may say there is no way around this.. but there really is. Make some dungeons that are essentially broken into segments. If you kill the first boss, there is a natural breaking point, where you can choose to be teleported out of the dungeon. When you are teleported out it gives you a stone that is essentially a hearthstone that will take you back to the spot where you left off. It can only be used while in the dungeon.
So, some messages you might see in your city's LFG channel would be "LFG <dungeon> <part x>". So it's not too difficult to find a group if your not doing the next part with the same group. Your party enters the dungeon, uses their "hearthstones" and now you're where you left off. Obviously some sort of mechanism would have to be implemented to keep people from going BACK from that point and rekilling the same boss.. but that shouldn't be too difficult to implement.
I'm not saying this idea is neccesarily the answer to all of the casual players' problems with the game's endgame content. I mostly just want to emphasize that the problem with the endgame content is that it requires large blocks of COMMITTED time... something most of us aren't willing to do -- this very thing I'd argue is what makes us "casual". So essentially, endgame PVE content is geared SOLEY towards hardcore players.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6207269&p=#post6207269 | | | Poster: Tseric at 12/14/2005 5:35:17 AM PST
Subject: Re: Some ideas on how to appease casual gamer |
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Q u o t e:
Were it not for a wide variety of play styles of thousands of people there wouldn't be any successful MMOs. I play a MMO because I like the social interaction with other actual living beings on the other end, not some computer AI that is not all that intelligent.
I have about 20 characters, none of which will probably ever hit lvl 60. Should I accidentally hit 60 with any one of them it would probably represent the end of the game to me, so , right now the game is enjoyable so I want to avoid the end.
Raiding is a huge hassle, I was in a couple on a friends account and I do not see the fun in it. So, I don't do it. I do not think it should be removed from the game of course, but more instance/quest/content for 'casual' people, whatever, is a needed improvement. I never thought I would like the quest aspect of an MMO until WOW, I like the quest system they have and more longer quests that would reward appropriate items should be implimented.
The idea about the outposts sounds like DAOC, which was fun. The neatest thing to me about this idea would be you would see a lasting affect in the game world from your actions.
Ideas about more 5-15 man instances would be great, but one thing that is real enjoyable to me is, while out on one of the multiple continent quests, I have the chance to run into those nasty horde players and not only do I have PVE encounters in order to complete my quest, but I have PVP encounters as well. Just spices it up a ton to get a few solo HKs along with a quest reward.
Sorry, poor post, rambled quite a bit.
Hey, I ramble too, so you aren't in bad company.
I also think in some ways our playstyle overlaps. I have had a long standing career of game play that rested in the fact that I don't like to cross the finish line. This is why MMOs are so appealing to me. I can easily side-track myself and interaction with other players helps me in this fact to a great degree.
To appease the so-called "casual gamer" is to address the same incentives as the so-called "hardcore player". Neither "type" of player wants the game to end, so as a game company making an MMO, we try to continually provide content to appease everyone. We want something for everyone to do.
The unfortunate thing about this debate that has been recurring for the past while, is that there is a poorly defined line drawn in the sand. Casual and hardcore doesn't cut it. Raider and non-raider gets a little closer, but is still too obtuse. I think I shall quote someone who has conveyed my idea succinctly...
Tom Robbins once wrote, "There are two types of people in this world. Those who think there are two types of people and those who know better."
Now, when it comes to the evolution of this game, there are elements on the horizon which take many playstyles into account. The real, primal concern is when that is going to happen. The real, primal demand is that it happens now.
Unfortunately, "now" encompasses a great deal for us, as a company trying to implement a variety of elements into a growing game. Be it more efficient coding for existing functions, embellishment of existing content, new content, seasonal content, bug fixes, etc.
The concept of "now" for an individual is more strict. If the particular needs of a player are not met "now", the player tends to be disappointed. We have the dubious pleasure of assessing the adage of "you can't please all the people all the time".
Though, from what I've seen in my time working for this company, we sure as hell try.
But I digress...
Aside from the inclusion of casual gamer in the subject of the OP, I like some of the ideas and arguements put forth here. If we were to avoid polarization of this particular issue, I think everyone would benefit in some fashion.
For further consideration...
Where would a non-raider draw the line to how many people qualify as a raid and how many they would be willing to group with? I am concerned with the fact that some players are taking a stance of refusing to group with certain numbers, effectively turning down content. Taking an absolute stance doesn't help with negotiation, if that is what you are seeking as a path to resolution.
Are non-raiders opposed to 15-man dungeons? Or is 5/10-person a hard and fast point? Or is 10-person even too much?
My opinions are just that. As are the facts.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6207269&p=#post6230571 | Poster: Tseric at 12/14/2005 5:35:17 AM PST
Subject: Re: Some ideas on how to appease casual gamer *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Were it not for a wide variety of play styles of thousands of people there wouldn't be any successful MMOs. I play a MMO because I like the social interaction with other actual living beings on the other end, not some computer AI that is not all that intelligent.
I have about 20 characters, none of which will probably ever hit lvl 60. Should I accidentally hit 60 with any one of them it would probably represent the end of the game to me, so , right now the game is enjoyable so I want to avoid the end.
Raiding is a huge hassle, I was in a couple on a friends account and I do not see the fun in it. So, I don't do it. I do not think it should be removed from the game of course, but more instance/quest/content for 'casual' people, whatever, is a needed improvement. I never thought I would like the quest aspect of an MMO until WOW, I like the quest system they have and more longer quests that would reward appropriate items should be implimented.
The idea about the outposts sounds like DAOC, which was fun. The neatest thing to me about this idea would be you would see a lasting affect in the game world from your actions.
Ideas about more 5-15 man instances would be great, but one thing that is real enjoyable to me is, while out on one of the multiple continent quests, I have the chance to run into those nasty horde players and not only do I have PVE encounters in order to complete my quest, but I have PVP encounters as well. Just spices it up a ton to get a few solo HKs along with a quest reward.
Sorry, poor post, rambled quite a bit.
Hey, I ramble too, so you aren't in bad company.
I also think in some ways our playstyle overlaps. I have had a long standing career of game play that rested in the fact that I don't like to cross the finish line. This is why MMOs are so appealing to me. I can easily side-track myself and interaction with other players helps me in this fact to a great degree.
To appease the so-called "casual gamer" is to address the same incentives as the so-called "hardcore player". Neither "type" of player wants the game to end, so as a game company making an MMO, we try to continually provide content to appease everyone. We want something for everyone to do.
The unfortunate thing about this debate that has been recurring for the past while, is that there is a poorly defined line drawn in the sand. Casual and hardcore doesn't cut it. Raider and non-raider gets a little closer, but is still too obtuse. I think I shall quote someone who has conveyed my idea succinctly...
Tom Robbins once wrote, "There are two types of people in this world. Those who think there are two types of people and those who know better."
Now, when it comes to the evolution of this game, there are elements on the horizon which take many playstyles into account. The real, primal concern is when that is going to happen. The real, primal demand is that it happens now.
Unfortunately, "now" encompasses a great deal for us, as a company trying to implement a variety of elements into a growing game. Be it more efficient coding for existing functions, embellishment of existing content, new content, seasonal content, bug fixes, etc.
The concept of "now" for an individual is more strict. If the particular needs of a player are not met "now", the player tends to be disappointed. We have the dubious pleasure of assessing the adage of "you can't please all the people all the time".
Though, from what I've seen in my time working for this company, we sure as hell try.
But I digress...
Aside from the inclusion of casual gamer in the subject of the OP, I like some of the ideas and arguements put forth here. If we were to avoid polarization of this particular issue, I think everyone would benefit in some fashion.
For further consideration...
Where would a non-raider draw the line to how many people qualify as a raid and how many they would be willing to group with? I am concerned with the fact that some players are taking a stance of refusing to group with certain numbers, effectively turning down content. Taking an absolute stance doesn't help with negotiation, if that is what you are seeking as a path to resolution.
Are non-raiders opposed to 15-man dungeons? Or is 5/10-person a hard and fast point? Or is 10-person even too much?
My opinions are just that. As are the facts.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6207269&p=#post6230571 | Poster: Tseric at 12/14/2005 5:35:17 AM PST
Subject: Re: Some ideas on how to appease casual gamer *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Were it not for a wide variety of play styles of thousands of people there wouldn't be any successful MMOs. I play a MMO because I like the social interaction with other actual living beings on the other end, not some computer AI that is not all that intelligent.
I have about 20 characters, none of which will probably ever hit lvl 60. Should I accidentally hit 60 with any one of them it would probably represent the end of the game to me, so , right now the game is enjoyable so I want to avoid the end.
Raiding is a huge hassle, I was in a couple on a friends account and I do not see the fun in it. So, I don't do it. I do not think it should be removed from the game of course, but more instance/quest/content for 'casual' people, whatever, is a needed improvement. I never thought I would like the quest aspect of an MMO until WOW, I like the quest system they have and more longer quests that would reward appropriate items should be implimented.
The idea about the outposts sounds like DAOC, which was fun. The neatest thing to me about this idea would be you would see a lasting affect in the game world from your actions.
Ideas about more 5-15 man instances would be great, but one thing that is real enjoyable to me is, while out on one of the multiple continent quests, I have the chance to run into those nasty horde players and not only do I have PVE encounters in order to complete my quest, but I have PVP encounters as well. Just spices it up a ton to get a few solo HKs along with a quest reward.
Sorry, poor post, rambled quite a bit.
Hey, I ramble too, so you aren't in bad company.
I also think in some ways our playstyle overlaps. I have had a long standing career of game play that rested in the fact that I don't like to cross the finish line. This is why MMOs are so appealing to me. I can easily side-track myself and interaction with other players helps me in this fact to a great degree.
To appease the so-called "casual gamer" is to address the same incentives as the so-called "hardcore player". Neither "type" of player wants the game to end, so as a game company making an MMO, we try to continually provide content to appease everyone. We want something for everyone to do.
The unfortunate thing about this debate that has been recurring for the past while, is that there is a poorly defined line drawn in the sand. Casual and hardcore doesn't cut it. Raider and non-raider gets a little closer, but is still too obtuse. I think I shall quote someone who has conveyed my idea succinctly...
Tom Robbins once wrote, "There are two types of people in this world. Those who think there are two types of people and those who know better."
Now, when it comes to the evolution of this game, there are elements on the horizon which take many playstyles into account. The real, primal concern is when that is going to happen. The real, primal demand is that it happens now.
Unfortunately, "now" encompasses a great deal for us, as a company trying to implement a variety of elements into a growing game. Be it more efficient coding for existing functions, embellishment of existing content, new content, seasonal content, bug fixes, etc.
The concept of "now" for an individual is more strict. If the particular needs of a player are not met "now", the player tends to be disappointed. We have the dubious pleasure of assessing the adage of "you can't please all the people all the time".
Though, from what I've seen in my time working for this company, we sure as hell try.
But I digress...
Aside from the inclusion of casual gamer in the subject of the OP, I like some of the ideas and arguements put forth here. If we were to avoid polarization of this particular issue, I think everyone would benefit in some fashion.
For further consideration...
Where would a non-raider draw the line to how many people qualify as a raid and how many they would be willing to group with? I am concerned with the fact that some players are taking a stance of refusing to group with certain numbers, effectively turning down content. Taking an absolute stance doesn't help with negotiation, if that is what you are seeking as a path to resolution.
Are non-raiders opposed to 15-man dungeons? Or is 5/10-person a hard and fast point? Or is 10-person even too much?
My opinions are just that. As are the facts.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6207269&p=#post6230571 |
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