Poster: Trevion at 11/22/2005 10:22:32 AM PST
Subject: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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"We're also adding raid versions for five of the Paladin's blessings. These new raid version blessings will last for fifteen minutes, and allow the Paladin the means to buff every player of a given class in the raid by selecting only one. These blessings will be available at your class trainer and the only prerequisite is the final rank (talent point where applicable) of the Blessing."
Many people are saying these 15 min. blessings will be useable in solo play and 5-man group play.
I'm under the impression they will only be castable on a raid member.
Can you please clarify?
Thank you!
Honor System Scoring Guide : http://tinyurl.com/ascgk
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Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 12:26:08 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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You will be able to use the fifteen minute raid blessings outside of a raid, Trevion. However, due to the mana cost and vendor-bought reagent used with each cast, it's not as mana efficient or cost effective to do so. As a Priest, I use my Prayer of Fortitude 2 in five and ten man groups all the time. I expend more mana and eat up a candle or two, but it's my preference.
You will soon have a similar option.
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Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 12:38:02 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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Q u o t e:
The reagents had better cost less considering there are usually more than 3-4 priests/druids/mages in a given raid group so each one only has to cast their group buff a maximum of 2-3 times. Moreover, it's a one hour buff so that means they have to use (all things being equal with no wipes) one fourth of the reagents.
Since paladin buffs are by class, it is highly likely each paladin will have to cast his buff seven times (one for each alliance class) every fifteen minutes since there are a variety of buffs to put on a raid as opposed to a priest only having fort, mages only having arcane brilliance, and druids only having Gift of the Wild.
Please make sure the cost of paladin reagents are appropriately relatively the the amount of times they will have to buff.
The cost of the reagent will be based upon the fact that the duration of the Blessing is fifteen minutes, worry not. Please also keep in mind, these new raid Blessings are intended to be used in large raiding groups. If you choose to use them in Stratholme or Scholomance, you will be expending more mana than necessary and burning through your reagents.
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Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 1:31:19 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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Q u o t e:
Please do not try to attempt, in any way, shape, or form, to compare a 1 hour buff to a 15 minute buff. You have no idea the tedium involved with this, and to say that it's not useful at a non-raid level means the devs didn't think about this at all. "Oh, I may have to burn a candle or two so I can go 1 hour without having to worry if little Jimmy the Main Tank has his fort buff." I'll take that any day.
In short, go to hell. This "option" is nowhere near similar.
I'm not sure if you understood me correctly. My comment was designed to point out that the new Paladin Raid Blessings are intended to be used in raid groups (ideally large raid groups). Choosing to use them otherwise isn't necessarily a wise decision, but can be done if it's the preference of the caster.
In short, please take the time to read a message before revealing hostility caused by an emotional reaction.
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Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 2:23:08 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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Okay, I've gathered the specific details of the reagents used to cast the Paladin Raid Blessings and I hope the information places your minds (and typing fingers) at ease. The 'Symbol of Kings' sell for 2 silver each and stack in groups of 100. We feel this is reasonably inexpensive, and shouldn't be too much of an inventory burden.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5908871&p=#post5914634 |
Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 2:30:50 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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Q u o t e:
So there will be symbol of might, symbol of wisdom etc etc etc.
No, the 'Symbol of Kings' will be used as the reagent for all five Raid Blessings.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5908871&p=#post5914771 |
Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 12:38:02 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
The reagents had better cost less considering there are usually more than 3-4 priests/druids/mages in a given raid group so each one only has to cast their group buff a maximum of 2-3 times. Moreover, it's a one hour buff so that means they have to use (all things being equal with no wipes) one fourth of the reagents.
Since paladin buffs are by class, it is highly likely each paladin will have to cast his buff seven times (one for each alliance class) every fifteen minutes since there are a variety of buffs to put on a raid as opposed to a priest only having fort, mages only having arcane brilliance, and druids only having Gift of the Wild.
Please make sure the cost of paladin reagents are appropriately relatively the the amount of times they will have to buff.
The cost of the reagent will be based upon the fact that the duration of the Blessing is fifteen minutes, worry not. Please also keep in mind, these new raid Blessings are intended to be used in large raiding groups. If you choose to use them in Stratholme or Scholomance, you will be expending more mana than necessary and burning through your reagents.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5908871&p=#post5911960 |
Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 1:31:19 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Please do not try to attempt, in any way, shape, or form, to compare a 1 hour buff to a 15 minute buff. You have no idea the tedium involved with this, and to say that it's not useful at a non-raid level means the devs didn't think about this at all. "Oh, I may have to burn a candle or two so I can go 1 hour without having to worry if little Jimmy the Main Tank has his fort buff." I'll take that any day.
In short, go to hell. This "option" is nowhere near similar.
I'm not sure if you understood me correctly. My comment was designed to point out that the new Paladin Raid Blessings are intended to be used in raid groups (ideally large raid groups). Choosing to use them otherwise isn't necessarily a wise decision, but can be done if it's the preference of the caster.
In short, please take the time to read a message before revealing hostility caused by an emotional reaction.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5908871&p=#post5913431 |
Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 2:23:08 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? *edited post* |
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Okay, I've gathered the specific details of the reagents used to cast the Paladin Raid Blessings and I hope the information places your minds (and typing fingers) at ease. The 'Symbol of Kings' sell for 2 silver each and stack in groups of 100. We feel this is reasonably inexpensive, and shouldn't be too much of an inventory burden.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5908871&p=#post5914634 |
Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 2:30:50 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
So there will be symbol of might, symbol of wisdom etc etc etc.
No, the 'Symbol of Kings' will be used as the reagent for all five Raid Blessings.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5908871&p=#post5914771 |
Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 3:57:27 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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Q u o t e:
You're wrong BTW, you don;t spend more mana per hour on buffs than a paladin already does ;) Paladins have THE HIGHEST mana per hour cost on party buffing already and upping mana cost for raid buffs is only gonna make that worse.
The last three times I've run Stratholme was done in less than half an hour, and I used my Prayer of Fortitude 2 each time, making a choice to expend more mana and use a reagent when not really necessary.[ post edited by Eyonix ]
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Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 4:21:21 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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Q u o t e:
Congrats on running stratholme lol....the paladin STILL spent more mana than you in half an hour (BoW is THREE TIMES as mana intensive as PoF ;) )
I'll do the math for ya :)
3400x2 + 2 sacred candles = 6400 mana and a reagent for 30 min of buffs
135 (blessing of light for example purposes because it is useful on all classes) x 10 x 6 = 8100 mana for 30 min worth of buffs. Now, take into account that your PoF lasts 60 min, not 30 and go ahead and double the paladin's mana cost to 16,200 per hour. The ONLY thing the pally has going for him THUS FAR (until the patch) is that his buffs don't cost a reagent (neither do yours technically, but they do if you're too lazy to buff 10 people twice every hour).
That's over double the mana cost from a class that typically has much less mana pool than a priest. ;) This is why I've always spolen up when you've said in order for paladin blessings to last longer they have to cost more mana....they already DO!
Quite simply, you're missing my point completely. I'm stating that while I'm free to make a decision as a Priest to use a group buff which isn't as cost effective or mana efficient as my single cast buff in certain situations, so can the Paladins - next patch. I'm NOT comparing Paladin Blessings to the Priest's Fortitude. Please remain mindful to the subject at hand. I'm addressing the question of the original poster which was "Can we cast our new Raid Blessings outside of a raid?" My answer in short was, yes, you can - it's just not wise to do so.
You are putting too much effort into crafting messages which digress my point.[ post edited by Eyonix ]
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Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 4:38:03 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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Q u o t e:
My answer in short was, yes, you can - it's just not wise to do so.
OK SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT IF I WANT TO RUN BRD FOR A FRIEND I STILL HAVE TO BUFF EVERYONE EVERY 5 MINUTES. WEREN'T YOU JUST SAYING THAT THIS IS UNBELIEVABLY TEDIOUS AND THAT IS WHY YOU WERE CHANGING IT? THEN WHY WOULD YOU MAKE THE CHANGE LIKE THIS, SAYING ITS NOT WISE TO USE THEM. YOU ARE SAYING 'HEY UNLESS YOU ARE IN A 40 MAN RAID' I AM GOING TO MAKE YOUR LIFE AS TEDIOUS AS IT EVER WAS. MAKES A TON OF SENSE BLIZZARD.
I never used the words 'unbelievable' or 'tedious', is it misquote Eyonix day and I didn't get a memo? We don't feel a problem exists with the way standard Blessings work in five, ten, fifteen or twenty-man groups. We're adding raid versions to eliminate some of the tedium (used it now - quote it!) players endure in large 40-man raids.[ post edited by Eyonix ]
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Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 4:57:24 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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Gamers have been creating programs for entertainment software for years which completely remove a player's need to even be at the computer. Your argument only proves that human beings in general prefer the path of least resistance - not that a failure exists within this particular area of the game. With that beings said, we are aware that the process to bless players in large raid groups was a bit demanding, which is why changes are being made next patch.
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Poster: Eyonix at 11/22/2005 5:02:39 PM PST
Subject: Re: Eyonix, Paladin Raid Blessings? |
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Q u o t e:
Have you done the math on this? This comes out to at least 3-4x as expensive as priest buffing during a typical 40 man raid.
1) You buff 4x as often => 8s / symbol
2) You typically buff buff 4-8 times more than a priest (that typically buff 1-2 groups).
Counting low the 'priest equivalent cost' would be 4 * 4* 2 = 32 silver.
It's not a heck of a lot of money mind you but it's not comparable to the cost of priest buffs. I
It's not designed to be comparable to the cost of the Priest's Prayer of Fortitude. It's designed to be a reasonably priced alternative to blessing large raid parties for extended periods of time. I believe we're accomplishing this with the values we've set.
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