Poster: Crimsom at 10/20/2005 12:36:42 PM PDT
Subject: Bannable Words |
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Is there magic list of words one can not say?, If so where is it listed and if not WHY? I read and hear about people getting warnings, getting 3 day bans for words that should get filtered out if blizzard made the filter always on with no option of turning it off, for a company thats so worried about what people say you would think they would have made the game with filter on, then we would not have to worry about what we say.....
So back to the list 1) is there a list?? 2) if so where is it posted, 3) if there is no list why?
Reason im asking is how can someone be booted from a game or banned for a word that is in the english dictionary??
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5389312&p=#post5389312 | | | Poster: Caydiem at 10/20/2005 12:43:00 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bannable Words |
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1) No.
2) See #1.
3) If we gave a definitive list of "what is bad", players would then take it to mean that every single word not listed is free reign. There are many, many ways to use offensive or vulgar language without once uttering the big "seven words you can't say on TV". A lot of it is context-based.
Did you know the f-word is in Merriam-Webster's? Its existence in the dictionary doesn't make it any less obscene. The reason why these words are considered vulgar oft times is because they have vulgar definitions. It's only natural that they end up in the dictionary at some point. I fail to see the argument there.
To summarize, it's the same reason policies are written in vague terminology -- when you list things that you cannot do in a specific fashion, you're given no leeway to take action against those who are breaking the spirit of the law but not the letter.
The profanity filter is there as a shield -- it is NOT an excuse to be profane.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5389312&p=#post5389403 | Poster: Caydiem at 10/20/2005 12:46:37 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bannable Words |
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Q u o t e:
Come on Cay, just quote me if you want to use my response. :P
Your response wasn't there when I started writing! :P
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5389312&p=#post5389465 | Poster: Caydiem at 10/20/2005 12:51:34 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bannable Words |
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Q u o t e:
so maybe you could tell me why wqe have a filter that people can turn on and off why not make game with it on then with no options to turn it off
The filter, as I said, is a shield. If you play with your child, for example, and you don't want them to see that sort of language, the filter is there for you.
Now, there are some guilds and other groups who prefer to be more free with their language, which is fine -- in a consentual environment. In something like Guild chat, which is full of like-minded folks who've probably given language warnings going in, that's fine -- provided everyone agreed to the environment. In tells to someone you don't know well or public channels, however, you are not in a consentual environment, and people can and will report you.
Is that more clear?
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5389312&p=#post5389548 | Poster: Caydiem at 10/20/2005 2:21:50 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bannable Words |
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Q u o t e:
Cay,
As usual, you have overstated your point and have potentially created more problems than you realize. You mention that the profanity filter is a shield against certain language and should not be used as an excuse to be profane or vulgar. I would say "fair enough" but, to be blunt, that point is kind of stupid. Regardless, you later post that Guild Chat is a different environment where like-minded individuals will use similar language and find similar language acceptable. You even mention that language may be covered in the ground rules for a Guild. Note: this is essentially what you said and is not out of context, so please do not cower behind the fact that I am not directly quoting you. So, Caydiem, are you saying that it is Blizzard's position that a player cannot be sanctioned for language if they are using the language in Guild Chat? I'm sure you see how problematic such a position would be. I don't really need to mention the problems of proving Guild Policy regarding language, the lack of any previous mention of Guild Policy, any changes in Guild Policy, or previous Guild Chat precedent. (By the way, please don't hide behind the argument that a person can leave a Guild or be removed from a Guild if they do not like the language. That is not the question posed, and you know it, so please do not give an evasive answer on those grounds.) You state that the agreement to the use of language is important. Okay, that is pretty meaningless when it will essentially come down to word vs. word.
Let me be very clear: First Amendment rights do not effectively exist in World of Warcraft. Note the word "effective." Blizzard, as a company, has broad power over what can and cannot be said in Chat. It is just PR that they place a profanity filter in the game, just like it is PR that Blizzard will not take a stance that would simply tell people to turn the filter on if they do not like certain language. Of course, speaking about PR to CMs (with the exception of Tseric) is a funny endeavor anyway.
Cheers
Nice try, Zoltar, but I did actually cover myself on that:
Q u o t e:
In something like Guild chat, which is full of like-minded folks who've probably given language warnings going in, that's fine -- provided everyone agreed to the environment.
That's not to say that you cannot report a guildmate who offends you with a racial slur after you agreed to a more lenient language environment. Rules are still rules, and guild chat isn't exempt from our rules, but generally, only the most severe violations there will have action taken against them.
Is that more clear?
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5389312&p=#post5391309 | Poster: Caydiem at 10/20/2005 12:43:00 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bannable Words *edited post* |
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1) No.
2) See #1.
3) If we gave a definitive list of "what is bad", players would then take it to mean that every single word not listed is free reign. There are many, many ways to use offensive or vulgar language without once uttering the big "seven words you can't say on TV". A lot of it is context-based.
Did you know the f-word is in Merriam-Webster's? Its existence in the dictionary doesn't make it any less obscene. The reason why these words are considered vulgar oft times is because they have vulgar definitions. It's only natural that they end up in the dictionary at some point. I fail to see the argument there.
To summarize, it's the same reason policies are written in vague terminology -- when you list things that you cannot do in a specific fashion, you're given no leeway to take action against those who are breaking the spirit of the law but not the letter.
The profanity filter is there as a shield -- it is NOT an excuse to be profane.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5389312&p=#post5389403 | Poster: Caydiem at 10/20/2005 12:46:37 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bannable Words *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Come on Cay, just quote me if you want to use my response. :P
Your response wasn't there when I started writing! :P
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5389312&p=#post5389465 | Poster: Caydiem at 10/20/2005 12:51:34 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bannable Words *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
so maybe you could tell me why wqe have a filter that people can turn on and off why not make game with it on then with no options to turn it off
The filter, as I said, is a shield. If you play with your child, for example, and you don't want them to see that sort of language, the filter is there for you.
Now, there are some guilds and other groups who prefer to be more free with their language, which is fine -- in a consentual environment. In something like Guild chat, which is full of like-minded folks who've probably given language warnings going in, that's fine -- provided everyone agreed to the environment. In tells to someone you don't know well or public channels, however, you are not in a consentual environment, and people can and will report you.
Is that more clear?
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5389312&p=#post5389548 | Poster: Caydiem at 10/20/2005 2:21:50 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bannable Words *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Cay,
As usual, you have overstated your point and have potentially created more problems than you realize. You mention that the profanity filter is a shield against certain language and should not be used as an excuse to be profane or vulgar. I would say "fair enough" but, to be blunt, that point is kind of stupid. Regardless, you later post that Guild Chat is a different environment where like-minded individuals will use similar language and find similar language acceptable. You even mention that language may be covered in the ground rules for a Guild. Note: this is essentially what you said and is not out of context, so please do not cower behind the fact that I am not directly quoting you. So, Caydiem, are you saying that it is Blizzard's position that a player cannot be sanctioned for language if they are using the language in Guild Chat? I'm sure you see how problematic such a position would be. I don't really need to mention the problems of proving Guild Policy regarding language, the lack of any previous mention of Guild Policy, any changes in Guild Policy, or previous Guild Chat precedent. (By the way, please don't hide behind the argument that a person can leave a Guild or be removed from a Guild if they do not like the language. That is not the question posed, and you know it, so please do not give an evasive answer on those grounds.) You state that the agreement to the use of language is important. Okay, that is pretty meaningless when it will essentially come down to word vs. word.
Let me be very clear: First Amendment rights do not effectively exist in World of Warcraft. Note the word "effective." Blizzard, as a company, has broad power over what can and cannot be said in Chat. It is just PR that they place a profanity filter in the game, just like it is PR that Blizzard will not take a stance that would simply tell people to turn the filter on if they do not like certain language. Of course, speaking about PR to CMs (with the exception of Tseric) is a funny endeavor anyway.
Cheers
Nice try, Zoltar, but I did actually cover myself on that:
Q u o t e:
In something like Guild chat, which is full of like-minded folks who've probably given language warnings going in, that's fine -- provided everyone agreed to the environment.
That's not to say that you cannot report a guildmate who offends you with a racial slur after you agreed to a more lenient language environment. Rules are still rules, and guild chat isn't exempt from our rules, but generally, only the most severe violations there will have action taken against them.
Is that more clear?
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5389312&p=#post5391309 |
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