Poster: Xoc at 10/9/2005 8:47:41 PM PDT
Subject: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit! |
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It's been a problem in a lot of games but at least dark age of camelot had a FACE command to help with it.
I don't care how it gets fixed, but it's a royal pain in the ass when anyone can run through you and avoid a spell that takes subjectively forever to cast.
And no you can't track them manually due to server lag and the fact that they will be running faster than you can actually turn, since all they do is run THROUGH you.
I suggest a 5m check to ignore facing check. But even a face command might help.
It's silly that this has been a problem in several other MMORPG's and yet no one has managed to fix it in this one.[ post edited by Xoc ]
My imp pimps out my succubus and won't split the cash
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5233177 |
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Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:16:33 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit |
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Why do I feel like this thread started because of a dueling loss?
Regardless, non-collision mechanics are preferable to collision mechanics....TRUST ME.
LoS mechanics also have to be in place. I understand melee is given an advantage in close range, that's kind of the idea. Any other structure that people want to implement is invariably going to be excessively complicated and outside of the concept of quick RTS style combat this game incorporates. The rotational speed of players is fairly quick, but not to the degree which it whips around. Casters usually have insta-cast spells. This compensates. At any rate, if melee classes are close range to caster classes, its more of a tactical issue than a game mechanic issue.
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236220 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:25:56 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit |
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Q u o t e:
Not warlocks. A rogue will ALWAYS be in close range to me when he attacks; we're the only class that can't defend against this exploit. Can you imagine chasing someone around in circles really fast and running THROUGH people in real life in some pathetic attempt to get to a point where you can backstab them for tremendous damage? I know this game isn't real life... but come on, when would anyone EVER have any trouble TURNING AROUND IN A CIRCLE.
(if you have a succubus) Seduce
(if you spent the talents) Shadowburn
And coming in 1.8, Death Coil
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236269 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:41:17 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit |
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Q u o t e:
Thanks for the prompt reply Tseric, seems you're the only CM who ever posts anywhere :\
Shadowburn has a cooldown and doesnt get you away from a rogue...it's just a small direct damage spell. Seduce is broken instantly by trinket and Will of the Forsaken. By then its only good for a maximum of 5 seconds thanks to diminishing returns (after the WotF 5 second duration). Even without WotF, a rogue/warrior is back in the game after first using the trinket or any number of other ways you can break fear/charm.
Edit: As for the new Deathcoil, that's only something recent that brought a whole host of nerfs along with it... and the mana cost is insanely high. I'll never use it. Also, for as long as this game has been around, Blizzard has denied that there was ever a problem with Warlocks before now (in that regard).
I understand your concern, but in the circumstance you bring up, please note a rogue is very effective against caster classes. There are escape opportunities, however they have smaller windows than other circumstances. A warlock can thrive in PvP with a solid, coordinated group. Alone, I'm not gonna argue that they might get ganked. It is possible for a win in a 1v1 match, but it requires a great deal focus and preparation. Frankly, I regard them(warlocks) as the most complicated caster class, if not the most complicated class in general.
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236362 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:44:06 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit |
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Q u o t e:
That's all fine and dandy, but the fact that this gives melee a huge boost in time and power is undeniable. When I played my warlock I've had fights where I cannot land one spell, not even searing pain. Why? Because an enemy can run through you and the only way to counter it is to predict they will run through you by turning yourself half a second before you finish the spell or else lag cancels it. It's unnessesary work. It was an exploit to avoid guards by jumping on roofs, how is it not an exploit to avoid spellcasting by stopping the spell completly, wasting a whole 2 seconds or more of their time. And yes, a whole 2 seconds can make the diffrence of a rogue splitting your skull or that frostbolt landing to gain some distance.
The fact is melee are undeniably powerful. Rogues can stealth near you and warriors can charge and intercept near you. Warlocks cannot gain any distance so people who use this exploit pretty much get a free win vs a lock because the lack of instant spells. Warlocks only have range when they get the first shot, and that is not often.
As it stands now a Warrior with a 3.6 cooldown axe can hit you and run away, hit you and run away like they are jousting so you can't hit them and they have their 3.6 cooldown going down. Why not do this for spells? Your spell is on a 4 second timer then let it load up 4 seconds. If the enemy is not infront of you let it STAY at 4 seconds until the target is in front of you.
You may refuse this to be an important issue, but it is. This makes that much more of a diffrence when fighting a warrior in complete epic vs a caster in epic. It doesn't matter his defence if it makes him that much stronger and you can't hit him. Casters vs Melee is rediciously weak and needs a tune up and this would be the first place to hit IMHO.
Dude, a few spells for ya...
all 3 of the draining spells. These are the only spells in the game that track movement. Count yourself fortunate.
EDIT- wait, I lied. Priests have some too :P[ post edited by Tseric ]
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236379 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:50:59 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit |
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Q u o t e:
So if you are going to fall back onto the 'rock paper scissors' analogy, what class would "require a great deal of focus and preparation" to defeat a warlock?
If I had my Felhound....Mage.
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236421 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:58:47 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit |
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Q u o t e:
LMAO... the idea of using drain soul in combat as a "tracking" spell... ROFLMAO!!!! Try playing a warlock once and a while n00b GM, ya may learn something :)
Imagine we are in 1.8. Does this invalidate my point that if a melee class was on top of you and you began to cast a drain as they tried to evade LoS, then you hit Death Coil?
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236473 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 5:05:09 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit |
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Q u o t e:
I believe it's called a Felhunter.
Old habits die hard :P
EDIT- everyone knows it's a puppy[ post edited by Tseric ]
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236513 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 5:08:46 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit |
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Q u o t e:
I love when Cm's who clearly have never pvped out side of a BG or in a duel try to tell people how to play their classes.
How about we set up CM vs player duels? Think you would stand a chance vs anything but a farmer?
Not trying to tell people how to play their class, simply providing other opinions. What are you doing?
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236536 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 5:39:05 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit |
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Tseric casts Shadowburn on forums...
You must be facing your target.
:(
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236711 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:16:33 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Why do I feel like this thread started because of a dueling loss?
Regardless, non-collision mechanics are preferable to collision mechanics....TRUST ME.
LoS mechanics also have to be in place. I understand melee is given an advantage in close range, that's kind of the idea. Any other structure that people want to implement is invariably going to be excessively complicated and outside of the concept of quick RTS style combat this game incorporates. The rotational speed of players is fairly quick, but not to the degree which it whips around. Casters usually have insta-cast spells. This compensates. At any rate, if melee classes are close range to caster classes, its more of a tactical issue than a game mechanic issue.
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236220 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:25:56 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Not warlocks. A rogue will ALWAYS be in close range to me when he attacks; we're the only class that can't defend against this exploit. Can you imagine chasing someone around in circles really fast and running THROUGH people in real life in some pathetic attempt to get to a point where you can backstab them for tremendous damage? I know this game isn't real life... but come on, when would anyone EVER have any trouble TURNING AROUND IN A CIRCLE.
(if you have a succubus) Seduce
(if you spent the talents) Shadowburn
And coming in 1.8, Death Coil
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236269 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:41:17 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Thanks for the prompt reply Tseric, seems you're the only CM who ever posts anywhere :\
Shadowburn has a cooldown and doesnt get you away from a rogue...it's just a small direct damage spell. Seduce is broken instantly by trinket and Will of the Forsaken. By then its only good for a maximum of 5 seconds thanks to diminishing returns (after the WotF 5 second duration). Even without WotF, a rogue/warrior is back in the game after first using the trinket or any number of other ways you can break fear/charm.
Edit: As for the new Deathcoil, that's only something recent that brought a whole host of nerfs along with it... and the mana cost is insanely high. I'll never use it. Also, for as long as this game has been around, Blizzard has denied that there was ever a problem with Warlocks before now (in that regard).
I understand your concern, but in the circumstance you bring up, please note a rogue is very effective against caster classes. There are escape opportunities, however they have smaller windows than other circumstances. A warlock can thrive in PvP with a solid, coordinated group. Alone, I'm not gonna argue that they might get ganked. It is possible for a win in a 1v1 match, but it requires a great deal focus and preparation. Frankly, I regard them(warlocks) as the most complicated caster class, if not the most complicated class in general.
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236362 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:44:06 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
That's all fine and dandy, but the fact that this gives melee a huge boost in time and power is undeniable. When I played my warlock I've had fights where I cannot land one spell, not even searing pain. Why? Because an enemy can run through you and the only way to counter it is to predict they will run through you by turning yourself half a second before you finish the spell or else lag cancels it. It's unnessesary work. It was an exploit to avoid guards by jumping on roofs, how is it not an exploit to avoid spellcasting by stopping the spell completly, wasting a whole 2 seconds or more of their time. And yes, a whole 2 seconds can make the diffrence of a rogue splitting your skull or that frostbolt landing to gain some distance.
The fact is melee are undeniably powerful. Rogues can stealth near you and warriors can charge and intercept near you. Warlocks cannot gain any distance so people who use this exploit pretty much get a free win vs a lock because the lack of instant spells. Warlocks only have range when they get the first shot, and that is not often.
As it stands now a Warrior with a 3.6 cooldown axe can hit you and run away, hit you and run away like they are jousting so you can't hit them and they have their 3.6 cooldown going down. Why not do this for spells? Your spell is on a 4 second timer then let it load up 4 seconds. If the enemy is not infront of you let it STAY at 4 seconds until the target is in front of you.
You may refuse this to be an important issue, but it is. This makes that much more of a diffrence when fighting a warrior in complete epic vs a caster in epic. It doesn't matter his defence if it makes him that much stronger and you can't hit him. Casters vs Melee is rediciously weak and needs a tune up and this would be the first place to hit IMHO.
Dude, a few spells for ya...
all 3 of the draining spells. These are the only spells in the game that track movement. Count yourself fortunate.
EDIT- wait, I lied. Priests have some too :P[ post edited by Tseric ]
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236379 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:50:59 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
So if you are going to fall back onto the 'rock paper scissors' analogy, what class would "require a great deal of focus and preparation" to defeat a warlock?
If I had my Felhound....Mage.
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236421 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:58:47 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
LMAO... the idea of using drain soul in combat as a "tracking" spell... ROFLMAO!!!! Try playing a warlock once and a while n00b GM, ya may learn something :)
Imagine we are in 1.8. Does this invalidate my point that if a melee class was on top of you and you began to cast a drain as they tried to evade LoS, then you hit Death Coil?
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236473 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 5:05:09 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
I believe it's called a Felhunter.
Old habits die hard :P
EDIT- everyone knows it's a puppy[ post edited by Tseric ]
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236513 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 5:08:46 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
I love when Cm's who clearly have never pvped out side of a BG or in a duel try to tell people how to play their classes.
How about we set up CM vs player duels? Think you would stand a chance vs anything but a farmer?
Not trying to tell people how to play their class, simply providing other opinions. What are you doing?
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236536 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 5:39:05 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Tseric casts Shadowburn on forums...
You must be facing your target.
:(
Do you see the forest or the trees?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236711 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:16:33 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Why do I feel like this thread started because of a dueling loss?
Regardless, non-collision mechanics are preferable to collision mechanics....TRUST ME.
LoS mechanics also have to be in place. I understand melee is given an advantage in close range, that's kind of the idea. Any other structure that people want to implement is invariably going to be excessively complicated and outside of the concept of quick RTS style combat this game incorporates. The rotational speed of players is fairly quick, but not to the degree which it whips around. Casters usually have insta-cast spells. This compensates. At any rate, if melee classes are close range to caster classes, its more of a tactical issue than a game mechanic issue.
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236220 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:25:56 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Not warlocks. A rogue will ALWAYS be in close range to me when he attacks; we're the only class that can't defend against this exploit. Can you imagine chasing someone around in circles really fast and running THROUGH people in real life in some pathetic attempt to get to a point where you can backstab them for tremendous damage? I know this game isn't real life... but come on, when would anyone EVER have any trouble TURNING AROUND IN A CIRCLE.
(if you have a succubus) Seduce
(if you spent the talents) Shadowburn
And coming in 1.8, Death Coil
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236269 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:41:17 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Thanks for the prompt reply Tseric, seems you're the only CM who ever posts anywhere :\
Shadowburn has a cooldown and doesnt get you away from a rogue...it's just a small direct damage spell. Seduce is broken instantly by trinket and Will of the Forsaken. By then its only good for a maximum of 5 seconds thanks to diminishing returns (after the WotF 5 second duration). Even without WotF, a rogue/warrior is back in the game after first using the trinket or any number of other ways you can break fear/charm.
Edit: As for the new Deathcoil, that's only something recent that brought a whole host of nerfs along with it... and the mana cost is insanely high. I'll never use it. Also, for as long as this game has been around, Blizzard has denied that there was ever a problem with Warlocks before now (in that regard).
I understand your concern, but in the circumstance you bring up, please note a rogue is very effective against caster classes. There are escape opportunities, however they have smaller windows than other circumstances. A warlock can thrive in PvP with a solid, coordinated group. Alone, I'm not gonna argue that they might get ganked. It is possible for a win in a 1v1 match, but it requires a great deal focus and preparation. Frankly, I regard them(warlocks) as the most complicated caster class, if not the most complicated class in general.
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236362 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:44:06 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
That's all fine and dandy, but the fact that this gives melee a huge boost in time and power is undeniable. When I played my warlock I've had fights where I cannot land one spell, not even searing pain. Why? Because an enemy can run through you and the only way to counter it is to predict they will run through you by turning yourself half a second before you finish the spell or else lag cancels it. It's unnessesary work. It was an exploit to avoid guards by jumping on roofs, how is it not an exploit to avoid spellcasting by stopping the spell completly, wasting a whole 2 seconds or more of their time. And yes, a whole 2 seconds can make the diffrence of a rogue splitting your skull or that frostbolt landing to gain some distance.
The fact is melee are undeniably powerful. Rogues can stealth near you and warriors can charge and intercept near you. Warlocks cannot gain any distance so people who use this exploit pretty much get a free win vs a lock because the lack of instant spells. Warlocks only have range when they get the first shot, and that is not often.
As it stands now a Warrior with a 3.6 cooldown axe can hit you and run away, hit you and run away like they are jousting so you can't hit them and they have their 3.6 cooldown going down. Why not do this for spells? Your spell is on a 4 second timer then let it load up 4 seconds. If the enemy is not infront of you let it STAY at 4 seconds until the target is in front of you.
You may refuse this to be an important issue, but it is. This makes that much more of a diffrence when fighting a warrior in complete epic vs a caster in epic. It doesn't matter his defence if it makes him that much stronger and you can't hit him. Casters vs Melee is rediciously weak and needs a tune up and this would be the first place to hit IMHO.
Dude, a few spells for ya...
all 3 of the draining spells. These are the only spells in the game that track movement. Count yourself fortunate.
EDIT- wait, I lied. Priests have some too :P[ post edited by Tseric ]
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236379 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:50:59 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
So if you are going to fall back onto the 'rock paper scissors' analogy, what class would "require a great deal of focus and preparation" to defeat a warlock?
If I had my Felhound....Mage.
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236421 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 4:58:47 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
LMAO... the idea of using drain soul in combat as a "tracking" spell... ROFLMAO!!!! Try playing a warlock once and a while n00b GM, ya may learn something :)
Imagine we are in 1.8. Does this invalidate my point that if a melee class was on top of you and you began to cast a drain as they tried to evade LoS, then you hit Death Coil?
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236473 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 5:05:09 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
I believe it's called a Felhunter.
Old habits die hard :P
EDIT- everyone knows it's a puppy[ post edited by Tseric ]
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236513 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 5:08:46 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
I love when Cm's who clearly have never pvped out side of a BG or in a duel try to tell people how to play their classes.
How about we set up CM vs player duels? Think you would stand a chance vs anything but a farmer?
Not trying to tell people how to play their class, simply providing other opinions. What are you doing?
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236536 |
Poster: Tseric at 10/10/2005 5:39:05 AM PDT
Subject: Re: FIX the RUN_THROUGH spell casters exploit *edited post* |
| |
Tseric casts Shadowburn on forums...
You must be facing your target.
:(
Do you see the forest or the trees?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5233177&p=#post5236711 |
