Poster: Exnia at 12/10/2005 11:23:50 AM PST
Subject: Tigole and his EQ buddies |
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...are what made this game great. Kudos.
Am i right?
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post265222 | | | Poster: Caydiem at 12/13/2005 2:53:11 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies |
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All right, I'm ending this myth here and now.
There are some who believe the development team consists of nothing but EQ raiders. Still others are under the assumption that these individuals are the only ones calling the shots.
I'll be blunt: you're wrong.
The development team is large, consisting of a wide variety of developers with experience in all manner of games, both creation and play. They are not all former hardcore players from previous games. Each and every design decision goes through many hands; many minds are consulted before any work is done on them. There is no one person directing the entirety of the game and calling the shots; even if there were, it's not Tigole.
Some of you are upset about the raid content being added. In comparison, the raid game was lacking. It's easy to say that there should be no focus on it if it isn't your main focus, but the fact of the matter is that we support a variety of playstyles, and the raid game had less variety than the small group game. If we want to be conservative, players have four small group dungeons. If you count the three separate wings of Dire Maul, that's six. This is not counting UBRS, since it's less of a small group, though it would bring the number of unique "runs" up to seven. In contrast, there were two "end-game" raid dungeons before 1.9: Molten Core and Blackwing Lair. (Onyxia takes approximately an hour; it is not a full raid dungeon.) 1.9 brings that number up to three, and Naxxramas will bring it to four, thus giving that side of the game the variety that it previously lacked. (Zul'Gurub and Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj are in-between and count toward neither total -- they're a casual run for hardcore raiders and a challenge for the casual.) They are not building more raid content in the game than there is small group content; the difference is that most of the small group content was there at launch.
In short, this game is sculpted by an ensemble of talented individuals, and the direction of the game should not be placed on any one person's shoulders. The current content on board is justified by what is in the game currently vs. what is needed. If you do not agree with it, or if that is not your particular style of play, that's fine; but kindly cease blaming one person when it simply isn't the case.
Thank you.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post268976 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/13/2005 2:58:14 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies |
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Q u o t e:
There is absolutely no *high end* small group (5-10) content. It does not exist. Incredibly hard encounters with incredibly good rewards for small groups is what some players want and it currently does not exist in any shape or form in WoW.
There are high end encounters for small groups; Dire Maul is one such instance that was deemed difficult when it was first launched. Now, naturally, it's considered far easier; however, if you are expecting a 5-man dungeon with BWL-equivalent loot, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post268988 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/13/2005 3:05:37 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies |
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Q u o t e:
Cay, you're not addressing the number of players each scenario occupies.
By your numbers, 4 small group dungeons, built for 5 man teams.
4x5 = 20
Two raid instances, that are built for 40 people.
2x40 = 80.
Okay, it's a weak point, but basically, I'm saying there's enough raid content to keep EIGHTY distinct people occupied in something different, while there's only enough small dungeon stuff for twenty people.
I'll admit it's a weird metric, but it almost makes sense!
I'm addressing variety, Pele, not numbers.
It takes no less time to create a small group dungeon for 5 people than it does to create a raid dungeon for 40.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post269000 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/13/2005 3:48:01 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies |
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Q u o t e:
Questing has all but fallen away...
Well, yes. This is because questing is non-repeatable content. The second you turn a quest into repeatable content, it becomes a "grind".
The developers cannot create such non-repeatable content at the same rate that players consume it. While we do occasionally add quests, we cannot do so to the level that would satisfy you.
The repeatable content is in the dungeons and faction rewards. What repeatable content would you rather have? Honest question.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post269067 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/13/2005 2:53:11 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies *edited post* |
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All right, I'm ending this myth here and now.
There are some who believe the development team consists of nothing but EQ raiders. Still others are under the assumption that these individuals are the only ones calling the shots.
I'll be blunt: you're wrong.
The development team is large, consisting of a wide variety of developers with experience in all manner of games, both creation and play. They are not all former hardcore players from previous games. Each and every design decision goes through many hands; many minds are consulted before any work is done on them. There is no one person directing the entirety of the game and calling the shots; even if there were, it probably would not be Tigole.
Some of you are upset about the raid content being added. In comparison, the raid game was lacking. It's easy to say that there should be no focus on it if it isn't your main focus, but the fact of the matter is that we support a variety of playstyles, and the raid game had less variety than the small group game. If we want to be conservative, players have four small group dungeons. If you count the three separate wings of Dire Maul, that's six. This is not counting UBRS, since it's less of a small group, though it would bring the number of unique "runs" up to seven. In contrast, there were two "end-game" raid dungeons before 1.9: Molten Core and Blackwing Lair. (Onyxia takes approximately an hour; it is not a full raid dungeon.) 1.9 brings that number up to three, and Naxxramas will bring it to four, thus giving that side of the game the variety that it previously lacked. (Zul'Gurub and Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj are in-between and count toward neither total -- they're a casual run for hardcore raiders and a challenge for the casual.) They are not building more raid content in the game than there is small group content; the difference is that most of the small group content was there at launch.
In short, this game is sculpted by an ensemble of talented individuals, and the direction of the game should not be placed on any one person's shoulders. The current content on board is justified by what is in the game currently vs. what is needed. If you do not agree with it, or if that is not your particular style of play, that's fine; but kindly cease blaming one person when it simply isn't the case.
Thank you.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post268976 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 1:02:49 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies |
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Q u o t e:
You're kidding yourself. But it's cute. So I'll let it pass.
The phrase "even if there was, it's not Tigole" is revealing. You switched from "if there was", the hypothetical case, to "it is not Tigole", the present tense. If you had seriously meant that it was only hypothetical, it would have properly been "it wouldn't be Tigole". So either:
A) You haven't consulted your MLA handbook in a while, or
B) There really is one person whose ideas pretty much dominate the direction the developers take the added content.
It's pretty safe to say that person is probably an EQ jerk.
Grammar issue on my part; apologies. I'll edit.
There isn't one person calling the shots, period.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post269746 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/13/2005 2:53:11 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies *edited post* |
| |
All right, I'm ending this myth here and now.
There are some who believe the development team consists of nothing but EQ raiders. Still others are under the assumption that these individuals are the only ones calling the shots.
I'll be blunt: you're wrong.
The development team is large, consisting of a wide variety of developers with experience in all manner of games, both creation and play. They are not all former hardcore players from previous games. Each and every design decision goes through many hands; many minds are consulted before any work is done on them. There is no one person directing the entirety of the game and calling the shots; even if there were, it probably would not be Tigole.
Some of you are upset about the raid content being added. In comparison, the raid game was lacking. It's easy to say that there should be no focus on it if it isn't your main focus, but the fact of the matter is that we support a variety of playstyles, and the raid game had less variety than the small group game. If we want to be conservative, players have four small group dungeons. If you count the three separate wings of Dire Maul, that's six. This is not counting UBRS, since it's less of a small group, though it would bring the number of unique "runs" up to seven. In contrast, there were two "end-game" raid dungeons before 1.9: Molten Core and Blackwing Lair. (Onyxia takes approximately an hour; it is not a full raid dungeon.) 1.9 brings that number up to three, and Naxxramas will bring it to four, thus giving that side of the game the variety that it previously lacked. (Zul'Gurub and Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj are in-between and count toward neither total -- they're a casual run for hardcore raiders and a challenge for the casual.) They are not building more raid content in the game than there is small group content; the difference is that most of the small group content was there at launch.
In short, this game is sculpted by an ensemble of talented individuals, and the direction of the game should not be placed on any one person's shoulders. The current content on board is justified by what is in the game currently vs. what is needed. If you do not agree with it, or if that is not your particular style of play, that's fine; but kindly cease blaming one person when it simply isn't the case.
Thank you.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post268976 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/13/2005 2:58:14 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
There is absolutely no *high end* small group (5-10) content. It does not exist. Incredibly hard encounters with incredibly good rewards for small groups is what some players want and it currently does not exist in any shape or form in WoW.
There are high end encounters for small groups; Dire Maul is one such instance that was deemed difficult when it was first launched. Now, naturally, it's considered far easier; however, if you are expecting a 5-man dungeon with BWL-equivalent loot, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post268988 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/13/2005 3:05:37 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Cay, you're not addressing the number of players each scenario occupies.
By your numbers, 4 small group dungeons, built for 5 man teams.
4x5 = 20
Two raid instances, that are built for 40 people.
2x40 = 80.
Okay, it's a weak point, but basically, I'm saying there's enough raid content to keep EIGHTY distinct people occupied in something different, while there's only enough small dungeon stuff for twenty people.
I'll admit it's a weird metric, but it almost makes sense!
I'm addressing variety, Pele, not numbers.
It takes no less time to create a small group dungeon for 5 people than it does to create a raid dungeon for 40.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post269000 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/13/2005 3:48:01 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Questing has all but fallen away...
Well, yes. This is because questing is non-repeatable content. The second you turn a quest into repeatable content, it becomes a "grind".
The developers cannot create such non-repeatable content at the same rate that players consume it. While we do occasionally add quests, we cannot do so to the level that would satisfy you.
The repeatable content is in the dungeons and faction rewards. What repeatable content would you rather have? Honest question.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post269067 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/14/2005 1:02:49 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tigole and his EQ buddies *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
You're kidding yourself. But it's cute. So I'll let it pass.
The phrase "even if there was, it's not Tigole" is revealing. You switched from "if there was", the hypothetical case, to "it is not Tigole", the present tense. If you had seriously meant that it was only hypothetical, it would have properly been "it wouldn't be Tigole". So either:
A) You haven't consulted your MLA handbook in a while, or
B) There really is one person whose ideas pretty much dominate the direction the developers take the added content.
It's pretty safe to say that person is probably an EQ jerk.
Grammar issue on my part; apologies. I'll edit.
There isn't one person calling the shots, period.
Good daycycle, Citizen!
The Computer is your friend.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=265222&p=#post269746 |
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